Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate story reaches Associated Press
#11
The persecution of the FI make me wonder if actions against groups such as the FSSP and ICKSP could be the next shoe to drop.  Let say, for example, that some troublemaker in the FSSP complains about the Traditional leanings of that group. Will that cause the heavy boot of oppression to come down upon them? As I understand it, the FSSP is dedicated to the TLM. Can they still be required to submit to the modernist party line, or are we talking apples and steaks?
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#12
The celebration of the TLM and the Sacraments according to the Traditional Rite is in the constitution of the FSSP. It's their entire charism. Not so for the FFI, which is the kicker.
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#13
(12-15-2013, 06:14 PM)jonbhorton Wrote: The celebration of the TLM and the Sacraments according to the Traditional Rite is in the constitution of the FSSP. It's their entire charism. Not so for the FFI, which is the kicker.

If that is the case, perhaps some of the Friers can join the FSSP.
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#14
But then they wouldn't be Religious, as Franciscans.

It'd be a whole rigamarole I believe. It's already very tough for even Diocesan Priests, as I understand it.
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#15
(12-15-2013, 12:43 PM)bsroufek Wrote:
(12-15-2013, 12:29 PM)Magdalene Wrote: The Holy Father is totally aware and approving of all that the commissar is doing.  This hostile takeover is being permitted. 
"Come with us and die of pain, hunger, and humiliation in the name of the Immaculate!" said Father Kolbe...

The FI must obey the Pope.  That this persecution is unjust and uncalled for is beside the point.  Heretics are given a pass but those who are "anyway traditional leaning" are the criminals. Hasn't this been mostly the case for 45 years? But we must hang on to tradition! 

The story has gone viral and it does reflect back on the Pope.  But how many name calling words have come from him?  Lots.  We cannot even exactly know who is being denigrated but with the suppressing of much of the FI, we can make a good guess.

To take an oath that the novus ordo is of the 'authentic tradition' of the Church?  Well the tradition of 45 years.  The tradition of the Book of Common Prayer of the 16th century.  If Cardinal Ratzinger could call it a "banal on the spot product" who can say they know more than him?  To force or coerce an oath makes it invalid.

Good article on Fr. Z's site: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/12/fr-z-on-f...mmaculate/

In the Gospel, Jesus commands us NOT to swear oaths.  So, this practice of the Church is wrong.

What about the Oath against Modernism?
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#16
(12-15-2013, 12:29 PM)Magdalene Wrote: The Holy Father is totally aware and approving of all that the commissar is doing.  This hostile takeover is being permitted. 
"Come with us and die of pain, hunger, and humiliation in the name of the Immaculate!" said Father Kolbe...

The FI must obey the Pope.  That this persecution is unjust and uncalled for is beside the point.  Heretics are given a pass but those who are "anyway traditional leaning" are the criminals. Hasn't this been mostly the case for 45 years? But we must hang on to tradition! 

The story has gone viral and it does reflect back on the Pope.  But how many name calling words have come from him?  Lots.  We cannot even exactly know who is being denigrated but with the suppressing of much of the FI, we can make a good guess.

To take an oath that the novus ordo is of the 'authentic tradition' of the Church?  Well the tradition of 45 years.  The tradition of the Book of Common Prayer of the 16th century.  If Cardinal Ratzinger could call it a "banal on the spot product" who can say they know more than him?  To force or coerce an oath makes it invalid.

Good article on Fr. Z's site: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/12/fr-z-on-f...mmaculate/


Thanks for the link from Father Z.
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#17
(12-15-2013, 12:43 PM)bsroufek Wrote:
(12-15-2013, 12:29 PM)Magdalene Wrote: The Holy Father is totally aware and approving of all that the commissar is doing.  This hostile takeover is being permitted. 
"Come with us and die of pain, hunger, and humiliation in the name of the Immaculate!" said Father Kolbe...

The FI must obey the Pope.  That this persecution is unjust and uncalled for is beside the point.  Heretics are given a pass but those who are "anyway traditional leaning" are the criminals. Hasn't this been mostly the case for 45 years? But we must hang on to tradition! 

The story has gone viral and it does reflect back on the Pope.  But how many name calling words have come from him?  Lots.  We cannot even exactly know who is being denigrated but with the suppressing of much of the FI, we can make a good guess.

To take an oath that the novus ordo is of the 'authentic tradition' of the Church?  Well the tradition of 45 years.  The tradition of the Book of Common Prayer of the 16th century.  If Cardinal Ratzinger could call it a "banal on the spot product" who can say they know more than him?  To force or coerce an oath makes it invalid.

Good article on Fr. Z's site: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/12/fr-z-on-f...mmaculate/

In the Gospel, Jesus commands us NOT to swear oaths.  So, this practice of the Church is wrong.

This is a Quaker mentality.

Quote:190. What does the Second Commandment forbid?
The Second Commandment forbids all false, rash, unjust, and unnecessary oaths; as also blaspheming, cursing and profane words.

191. Is it ever lawful to swear or to take an oath?
It is lawful to swear or to take an oath only when God's honour, or our own, or our neighbor's good requires it.
The Penny Catechism

Haydock:
Quote:Ver. 34. Swear not at all. We must not imagine that here are forbidden all oaths, where there is a just and necessary cause of calling God to witness. An oath on such an occasion is an act of justice and religion. Here are forbidden unnecessary oaths in common discourse, by which the sacred name of God, which never ought to be pronounced without reverence and respect, is so frequently and scandalously profaned. (Witham) --- 'Tis not forbidden to swear in truth, justice and judgment; to the honour of God, or our own or neighbours' just defence; but only to swear rashly, or profanely, in common discourse, and without necessity. (Challoner)

Ver. 35. The Anabaptists and other sectarists, following the letter, and not the spirit of the Scripture, and walking in the footsteps of their predecessors, the Waldenses, and the Pelagians, will allow of no oath to be lawful, not even before a judge. (Bristow)
http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id19.html

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#18
This sort of thing has certainly deterred me from any sort of priestly or religious vocation, even to the FSSP or other groups. Why would I hand my life over to the Church if they will dispose of it this way?
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#19
(12-16-2013, 01:37 PM)sw85 Wrote: This sort of thing has certainly deterred me from any sort of priestly or religious vocation, even to the FSSP or other groups. Why would I hand my life over to the Church if they will dispose of it this way?

I can't believe I'm saying this, but you always have the SSPX
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#20
someone in power really needs to step in and put the breaks on this anti-traditionalist agenda...

I can now see the situation that Pope Benedict was living in. As soon as a modernist pope enters the scene the wheels of the Vatican machinery start to turn....

One can only assume that Pope Benedict was only able to stop the modernist machines from moving forward too quickly, but he wasn't able to change thieir nature.

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