If Pope Francis allows.....
#11
Also if the German bishops did go on their own. How would we view the directives of Archbishop Muller towards the SSPX?. Hypocritical or would the German bishops be deFacto schismatics as well?. Ponder!. 
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#12
First if Pope Francis were about to put this in law, I'd watch for lightening because it can not happen.

tim
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#13
(12-30-2013, 09:55 AM)Tim Wrote: First if Pope Francis were about to put this in law, I'd watch for lightening because it can not happen.

tim

I don't see it happening but if it did it wouldn't be a huge surprise. Just as we seem to think Modernist clergy "conservative" when they have totally unorthodox theology but uphold Catholic teaching on morals, eventually we should expect the bad theology and philosophy to led to error in morals too.

If even the Pope can undermine traditional theology as we have clearly seen since Vatican II, but we can make the distinction between his personal error and the Church which cannot err (and the personal infallibility of the Pope in certain specific circumstances when he teaches as the successor of St Peter) one shouldn't then  our reaction to moral error should be the same.

If the theological errors of the Pope's since Vatican II are tolerable, then moral error should not be an issue. The Church teaching cannot change, but that does not stop churchmen from making it seem like it has.

If people want to support the SSPX then they should to do so because they are in the right, not because the Pope is in the wrong.
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#14
He can't be THAT stupid.  :crazy:
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#15
(12-30-2013, 02:08 PM)MagisterMusicae Wrote:
(12-30-2013, 09:55 AM)Tim Wrote: First if Pope Francis were about to put this in law, I'd watch for lightening because it can not happen.

tim

I don't see it happening but if it did it wouldn't be a huge surprise. Just as we seem to think Modernist clergy "conservative" when they have totally unorthodox theology but uphold Catholic teaching on morals, eventually we should expect the bad theology and philosophy to led to error in morals too.

If even the Pope can undermine traditional theology as we have clearly seen since Vatican II, but we can make the distinction between his personal error and the Church which cannot err (and the personal infallibility of the Pope in certain specific circumstances when he teaches as the successor of St Peter) one shouldn't then  our reaction to moral error should be the same.

If the theological errors of the Pope's since Vatican II are tolerable, then moral error should not be an issue. The Church teaching cannot change, but that does not stop churchmen from making it seem like it has.

If people want to support the SSPX then they should to do so because they are in the right, not because the Pope is in the wrong.

So much for my wise remark. This entire era from the Protestant Revolt through the Renaissance to the French Revolution, down to modernists in the late 1800's through both world wars and the Russian Revolution, Vatican II and the monetary crisis today is God's permissive will.  So I'd stay where I am and pray as I do.
Thanks to the SSPX for their best efforts but they are not the Calvary and there is no Roy in hiding. We are about to get are very deserved whooping.

Pray the Rosary, now !!

tim .
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#16
I would make an act of faith, particularly with the indefectibility of the Church in mind.

The Church has already appeared to alter an important moral teaching -- the teaching on usury.  I say "appeared," because we must believe as Catholics that the teaching has not changed.  Many theologians have endeavored to explain why there has been no change in that teaching.

I would expect the same effort to be made were the teaching on divorce and remarriage to undergo a comparable "shift."

Nevertheless, it has not happened.

I would recommend that traditionalists examine their consciences concerning their readiness to criticize the magisterium.  Essentially, they give priority to their own theological conclusions when they criticize the magisterium.  That is not Catholic.  Their fundamental error is explained in this fine blog post, Why I Left the SSPX Milieu.
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#17
Clare, my 2 coppers on Usury;

1) They keep quiet because Banking (usury) has become so preternaturally complex they are confused.

2) The Vatican like all states are part of the Banker's estate, and they would loose all if they speak.

tim
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#18
(12-30-2013, 09:55 AM)Tim Wrote: First if Pope Francis were about to put this in law, I'd watch for lightening because it can not happen.

tim

Hours after Pope Benedict's resignation...

[Image: article-2276884-17841A9A000005DC-22-634x...0212050049]

I agree it won't happen, but I think the notion of annulments being handed out at the parish level by clergy is a real possibility.  If your pastor won't grant an annulment, you can just "shop" around for one that does.  There ya go.  Heresy Without Heresy™, brought to you by the Spirit of the Second Vatican Council.
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#19
(12-30-2013, 06:12 PM)Oatmeal Wrote:
(12-30-2013, 09:55 AM)Tim Wrote: First if Pope Francis were about to put this in law, I'd watch for lightening because it can not happen.

tim

Hours after Pope Benedict's resignation...

[Image: article-2276884-17841A9A000005DC-22-634x...0212050049]

I agree it won't happen, but I think the notion of annulments being handed out at the parish level by clergy is a real possibility.  If your pastor won't grant an annulment, you can just "shop" around for one that does.  There ya go.  Heresy Without Heresy™, brought to you by the Spirit of the Second Vatican Council.

You know Oatmeal, I've thought about this, and I think that lightening is saying something a little different. If God Almighty was angry with Pope Benedict XVI, it would have hit him on the head. It hit the Vatican instead, which I believe is filled with many that work for destruction of the Church. If I were one of them masons, sleeper commies, gay lobby, modernists, americanists, or their useful idiots, I'd run.

tim
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#20
(12-30-2013, 09:55 AM)Tim Wrote: You know Oatmeal, I've thought about this, and I think that lightening is saying something a little different. If God Almighty was angry with Pope Benedict XVI, it would have hit him on the head. It hit the Vatican instead, which I believe is filled with many that work for destruction of the Church. If I were one of them masons, sleeper commies, gay lobby, modernists, americanists, or their useful idiots, I'd run.

tim

I agree with you 100%.  I didn't mean to imply that this was a sign directed at our Pope Emeritus.
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