Pope Benedict XVI resigned because of Vatileaks and the SSPX situation
#11
(01-05-2014, 01:20 PM)sw85 Wrote: "Forced" would mean he had a gun to his head or threat of the same, I would think. Being discouraged by the treachery of his brother bishops and the general faithlessness of the Church is not coercion.

Agreed; I'm sure I'd be much the same in his place.

I like to entertain fantasies of being a pope who takes a wrecking ball to Modernism, but I don't know what stresses and problems, seen and unseen, a pope has to face, especially when he is tackling problems.
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#12
All of the theories about "forced" resignation seem absurd so far.
The fact is, he is supposed to be ready to die for the Faith and the Catholic Church. Period. If he can resign because "he found it too hard" imagine the poor people in the pews. The only way I can see his being "forced" or "pushed" out is if they had something bad on him, personally. I don't want to go there, and all of this speculation is foolishness, and the man said he was tired and not fit enough for the job (so they got a guy with one lung instead . . . ), but it is not really plausible to imagine the pope being "pushed"out in any way, unless A) he was a silly pope to begin with, and was a quitter, which means we are better off without him, or B) he was blackmailed, as in they had something on HIM, something that could have rocked the Church to the core. I don't think so and I don't want to think so, but all the other ones sound like conspira-Siri- theories, and all of those theories require a weak, stupid pope, which Cardinal Siri was not. As for BXVI, . . . . I am not so sure. Weak, or they had something on HIM. In his last speech he railed against the press. Why? Weird.
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#13
Pope Benedict XVI, now pope emeritus, is an extremely intelligent and prudent man. He concluded that he no longer had the ability to fulfill his duties as pope. It's as simple as that.
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#14
(01-05-2014, 05:28 PM)maldon Wrote: All of the theories about "forced" resignation seem absurd so far.
The fact is, he is supposed to be ready to die for the Faith and the Catholic Church. Period. If he can resign because "he found it too hard" imagine the poor people in the pews. The only way I can see his being "forced" or "pushed" out is if they had something bad on him, personally. I don't want to go there, and all of this speculation is foolishness, and the man said he was tired and not fit enough for the job (so they got a guy with one lung instead . . . ), but it is not really plausible to imagine the pope being "pushed"out in any way, unless A) he was a silly pope to begin with, and was a quitter, which means we are better off without him, or B) he was blackmailed, as in they had something on HIM, something that could have rocked the Church to the core. I don't think so and I don't want to think so, but all the other ones sound like conspira-Siri- theories, and all of those theories require a weak, stupid pope, which Cardinal Siri was not. As for BXVI, . . . . I am not so sure. Weak, or they had something on HIM. In his last speech he railed against the press. Why? Weird.

Even before his election, then-Cardinal Ratzinger had argued that a Pope should resign if he is no longer capable of fulfilling the Petrine ministry.  He sat and watched the later years of Bl. John Paul II's pontificate which, by all accounts, was no walk in the park and the Vatican had become a nest of devils.  The See of Saint Peter does not come with a life time guarantee.  The Pope has the right to resign and there is historical precedent.  For the love of God, Pope Celestine V is a canonised saint!

Pope Benedict XVI was not weak.  He was entirely consistent with his pre-election position.  He, for whatever reasons, after prayer and discernment, judged he could not carry out his ministry and thus resigned.  There's no need to assume blackmail, and there is certainly no grounds for slanderous accusations of weakness.

I disagree with him, I wish he would have died in Peter's chair after shepherding us for many years.  But the man was honest with himself, was consistent with his belief and position, and acted on it with courage and honour.  For that he deserves every ounce of respect we can drudge up in ourselves.
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#15
Prie dieu,

I disagree with you ever so slightly, but really so slightly as to make it unimportant. My main point is that this election was, as far as we can tell, entirely valid, and any suggestions to the contrary have possible explanations in the weaknesses of popes and not in any circumstance that could have "forced" Benedict to resign. I suppose my point is that if anyone wants to suggest that something was "iffy" with the situation, it would have to be because of Benedict himself, and not some horde of evil curates threatening who-knows-what.
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#16
I think it is very simply that Benedict XVI was very, very tired. He was an old man worn out by the vipers in the Curia, the intransigence of the SSPX, and betrayal by someone close to him. The decision to resign came because he believes that what the Church needs is a man who can actually govern the Church, not simply occupy a throne. The Church needs a shepherd, not an old man too tired to act. I think he saw the terrible state of the Vatican and the Church and prudentially decided he could not fulfill the job, and waiting around to die was the least useful thing he could do as the Pope. He is the only person on earth who is privy to every detail of the decision, and God will judge. I do not feel the need to lionize or valorize his decision like some in the neo-Catholic world do, but I do not begrudge what was surely a terribly difficult decision.
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#17
My theory is that the wolves that he warned us about, fearful of a reconciliation with the SSPX, threatened the Holy Father through blackmail and to show they mean business leaked the vatican documents.

This of course raises questions as to the validity of the abdication if it was done under pressure or duress - hence an additional question of the validity of Pope Francis.... allowing him to do things that shake the infallibility of the Church (canonization of JP2 and other suspect modernists).

In any event the Vatileaks stopped as soon as pope francis was elected,,, coincidence?
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#18
(01-06-2014, 02:01 PM)winoblue1 Wrote: In any event the Vatileaks stopped as soon as pope francis was elected,,, coincidence?
How did it stop?
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#19
well there doesn't seem to have been any new reports of confidential material being leaked to embarass the pope... have you heard of any?
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#20
I don't know, winoblue. Sounds like you are working backwards, trying to find a way around the infallibility of Pope Francis and his papal decisions. I wouldn't mind having such an out, but I just don't see it here at all. Pope Benedict would have had to cave in to pressure like a coward, a man who, as cardinal knows he is to shed his blood for the faith. I just don't see it. And in fact, I see the opposite.
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