Superb article explaining the division in the US Church
#1
Though not an American, the debate between those who hold to traditional Catholic doctorine, and those who try and force the American model on Catholicism (based around the notion, to my mind, of American exceptionalism) fascinates me, and is an important one for a Catholicism in the Anglo-sphere.

This article sums up the difference, and their intellectual roots, wonderfully. Read and say your thoughts!

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/a...-watching/
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#2
What he deemed "radical Catholics" or as we say trads are not having much of an impact because of numbers. The dance of the Liberals with the neo-cons will go on, unless a cataclysm occurs. There is some truth in the neo-con notion that the founding documents are somewhat Catholic. There are papers written showing the ideas used coming straight from S. Roberto Cardinal Bellarmine. I'm sort of in that camp but only specifically concerning the founding documents.  Progressivism is a real problem from the right and left; Wilson and Roosevelt were both big in the movement.

I don't believe in the Pope Benedict small communities solution. If in God's mercy the US collapses, the trads have the intellectual firepower to fix the founding documents to be fully Catholic and make people see the wisdom. The problem arises they are living in lala land and want a 15th century King or better Roi. I think if we collapse we should form several hundred little counties and city states, with an absolutely loose federation. On an economics level a return to an economy which propels small businesses and does not allow huge Banks, would set us back on the footing which made us an economic power house.

There so much more which needs to be said but this will do for know.

tim
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#3
All this Day-dreaming    :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
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#4
Here's hoping that neither side wins  :LOL:

I don't want the Republican = Catholicism,  "who can you screw for a buck Capitalism" = Catholicism of George Weigel, National Catholic Register and company.  It turns my stomach to see us sell ourselves to these rotting corpses.

But ... I don't want the Kings = Catholicism, Guild system = Catholicism of the trad nuts mentioned in that article.  Sorry, I don't want a king telling me what to do and a guild telling me whether or not i can start a business.

The leftist = Catholicism is not even worth discussing, its a non-starter.

Basically, i like democracy, i like freedom, but i also like the Faith.  The Faith is bigger than these little fads that the conservatives and the traddy nuts want to create.  We can Catholicize America without trying to turn it into 10th century England.  We can Catholicize America without grovelling to the Republican party and licking Uncle Sam's shoe straps.
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#5
Upon further reflection, participating in this thread was pointless, and there was no need to argue with the above poster about preferred form of Government.

I apologize to the poster and any other posters in this thread for any sins of Gossip, Detraction, Calumny, and/or Slander caused by this post, and any other sins committed, and any sins others fell or will fall into by reading it as a result.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son,
and to the Holy Spirit,
as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be,
world without end. Amen.
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#6
Drover,

Exactly!  I agree with you.  The problem is the 2 factions listed in the original article are anything but nuanced.  I could agree with a meeting in the middle of the 2 sides, but I seriously wouldn't want either to be the sole victor.
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#7
If you will not have a king tell you what you ought to do, then you have a president force you to do what he wants you do. If you will not cooperate with the guild in making just prices for your common products, then you will have an union to force you to accept unjust wages while they have their hands in the till.
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#8
(02-14-2014, 09:20 PM)GodFirst Wrote: If you will not have a king tell you what you ought to do, then you have a president force you to do what he wants you do. If you will not cooperate with the guild in making just prices for your common products, then you will have an union to force you to accept unjust wages while they have their hands in the till.

Its not that simple.  kings and guilds can be corrupted easier than democracies.  How do you think Catholic England became Anglican England?  By edict of the king.  How do you think the reduciones were destroyed?  The portugese guilds liked their slaves and couldn't stand the jesuits taking their slaves away.
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#9
(02-14-2014, 06:03 PM)AxxeArp Wrote: Here's hoping that neither side wins  :LOL:

I don't want the Republican = Catholicism,  "who can you screw for a buck Capitalism" = Catholicism of George Weigel, National Catholic Register and company.  It turns my stomach to see us sell ourselves to these rotting corpses.

But ... I don't want the Kings = Catholicism, Guild system = Catholicism of the trad nuts mentioned in that article.  Sorry, I don't want a king telling me what to do and a guild telling me whether or not i can start a business.

The leftist = Catholicism is not even worth discussing, its a non-starter.

Basically, i like democracy, i like freedom, but i also like the Faith.  The Faith is bigger than these little fads that the conservatives and the traddy nuts want to create.  We can Catholicize America without trying to turn it into 10th century England.  We can Catholicize America without grovelling to the Republican party and licking Uncle Sam's shoe straps.

I totally agree with you! I can't stand the politicizing of the Catholic Faith in America by either group. The conservatives have EWTN in the bag.
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#10
The application of subsidiarity would not allow for an all powerful President or King. God Almighty warned against Kings in the OT. It'd be fine to have a constitutional Monarchy where the King and Royals are more ceremonial. I see the real power needing to reside much lower like in the Lord High Mayor of City-states, and say a Baron in a cattle country.  Perhaps a House of Commons which writes laws, and a House of Lords who tempers that in view of morality and the constitution, and the King or Emperor as the ceremonial signatory on the Documents. This is all mine. I'd like to see an embracing of our history. In DC, I'd want all the soldiers guarding any monuments dressed like a revolutionary soldiers. I'd like to see  a change from destroying everything and building new, new, new, to keeping the stuff we have for posterity. I despised Urban Renewal, and the yuppies have proved none of it was necessary.

tim
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