Y'all are gonna want to watch this...
#1
...especially around the 32:00 mark.

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#2
(02-20-2014, 12:43 PM)Oatmeal Wrote: ...especially around the 32:00 mark.


Kenneth Copeland...heresiarch. I appreciate HH want to reach out to separated brethren but some are really only "loosely" called so.
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#3
Unable to watch video right now. Can you summarize what he says?
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#4
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories...400707.htm

In unusual video, pope speaks of his longing for Christian unity

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- In an unusual video message, recorded on an iPhone by a Pentecostal pastor Pope Francis knew in Argentina, the pope says all Christians share blame for their divisions, speaks of his "longing" for their unity and insists that God will bring the miracle of Christian unity to completion.

"Pray to the Lord that he will unite us all," the pope tells a group of Pentecostals meeting in the United States. "Let's move forward, we are brothers; let us give each other that spiritual embrace and allow the Lord to complete the work he has begun. Because this is a miracle; the miracle of unity has begun."

In the video, posted on YouTube and never released by the Vatican, the pope quotes a character from a novel by Alessandro Manzoni; the character says, "'I have never found that the Lord began a miracle without finishing it well.' He will finish well this miracle of unity," the pope added.

The Vatican did not release any details when it announced Jan. 14 that Pope Francis had met with "Anthony Palmer, bishop and international ecumenical officer for the Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches," a group that is not affiliated with the Anglican Communion.

The video, which Palmer said he took with his iPhone, begins in English with the pope apologizing that he will have to switch to Italian, although mostly, he said, he would speak from the heart, which is "a more simple, more authentic language."

Addressing Palmer as "my brother, a bishop-brother" and saying they had "been friends for years," the pope offered what he said were greetings "both joyful and full of longing" to participants in a forthcoming meeting of the Kenneth Copeland Ministries, a Pentecostal group that sponsors large prayer gatherings around the world.

The joy, the pope said, comes from knowing that "the Lord is working all over the whole world."

But he said he is full of longing because Christians are still separated, "separated because of sin, our sins."

"Who is at fault?" he asked. "All of us are, we are all sinners. There is only one who is just and that is the Lord."

Pope Francis said he longs for the day when "this separation would end and there would be communion."

"Let's allow our longing to increase so that it propels us to find each other, embrace each other and to praise Jesus Christ as the only Lord of history," the pope said.

The video begins with Palmer telling a Pentecostal gathering about the importance of Christian unity for preaching salvation in Christ to the world.

Palmer said that the Catholic-Protestant divisions have had no reason to exist since the 1999 Catholic-Lutheran Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification. The agreement recognized that "by grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works."

"Brothers and sisters, Luther's protest is over," Palmer told his audience. "Is yours?"

"We are not protesting the doctrine of salvation (taught) by the Catholic Church anymore," he said. "We now preach the same Gospel."

The Catholic Church has celebrated the agreement on justification and other ecumenical agreements, while insisting that further progress must be made to resolve other differences before there is full unity and sacramental sharing. Those differences include how different Christians view the sacraments and how they see the role of the papacy.

END
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#5
I am speechless.

I wonder if he could call Mgr. Fellay his "brother bishop", or if he yearns unity with the catholics attached to the traditional "fashion"...
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#6
Quote:

"Palmer said that the Catholic-Protestant divisions have had no reason to exist since the 1999 Catholic-Lutheran Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification. The agreement recognized that "by grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works."
____________________________

Is this true? Is this what the Church believes? I thought Catholics believe it is a combination of Grace and Good Works?

Can someone clarify?
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#7
(02-20-2014, 04:06 PM)winoblue1 Wrote: Quote:

"Palmer said that the Catholic-Protestant divisions have had no reason to exist since the 1999 Catholic-Lutheran Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification. The agreement recognized that "by grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works."
____________________________

Is this true? Is this what the Church believes? I thought Catholics believe it is a combination of Grace and Good Works?

Can someone clarify?

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontif...on_en.html

15.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.
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#8
Holy smoke!!! I am sooo confused right now.
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#9
I don't grasp how the teaching - or the understanding of the teaching - has changed since 1999. If our beliefs weren't all that different from 1520-1999, why the 450+ years of separation? All this is very suspicious and Modernist-sounding.

On Pope's i-Phone message to the Protestants: it's nice, but as seems to be usual with Francis, there are a lot of platitudes. It's a shame that the KCM group seem to be health-and-wealth "Prosperity Gospel" believers.

As to "speaking from the heart" as its own language, better than English or Italian... why not just say it in Latin? ;) I guess that would be interpreted as an official statement, and we don't want many of those from this sort of Pope. Calling the strange, suit-wearing "evangelical episcopal" minister a "brother bishop" is highly disturbing to me.
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#10
Isn't this just UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO in action?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_counc...io_en.html

In reading that document in it's entirety I end up with more questions than answers. In watching Pope Francis' video I can't see how it is consistent with paragraph 11.

"11. The way and method in which the Catholic faith is expressed should never become an obstacle to dialogue with our brethren. It is, of course, essential that the doctrine should be clearly presented in its entirety. Nothing is so foreign to the spirit of ecumenism as a false irenicism, in which the purity of Catholic doctrine suffers loss and its genuine and certain meaning is clouded.

At the same time, the Catholic faith must be explained more profoundly and precisely, in such a way and in such terms as our separated brethren can also really understand."


Issues like this just get me confused too.... Hence my decision to stick with trad-dom...
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