The Experiences of Homosexual Trads
#41
Once again Vox, you're a light unto the trad nations ;)

So much to say here, I'm wouldn't know where to start. But I will say this - self-hatred as symptomatic of a mental disorder doesn't necessarily link up with SSA. Yes, homosexuals raised in an environment where they are made to feel worthless and perverse will manifest self-hating tendencies. But that isn't the nature of the beast. For all the terrible excesses of the culture, it is teaching the institutional Church a valuable lesson in respect - something that the Church has had a (historically speaking) hard time extending to others. That's the dark side to any hierarchy allied with human nature.
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#42
You are correct, loggats. Thank you for that input to the thread.
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#43
Heorot

I just want you to know that I have had serious struggles with depression, OCD, anxiety, and probably asbergers syndrome as well. But, I learned to embrace my quickiness, and you know what? People start to find it endearing. In a weird way, because I have become happy with myself as an off beat person, people seem to like that. I PROMISE, it gets better. I agree that you should speak to a counselor ( a good Christian one), but in the meantime I hope you hold onto hope that it gets better.
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#44
Thank you for making your life and thoughts manifest, Papist, possibly to your own embarrassment. It is beautiful sacrifice for the sake of your brethren.

As to counselors, they can get stuffed for the most part. This is Canada, so ostensibly such help is "free", but the free-psychs are under-trained and superficial. They suggest things that do not hit the core of the problems. The private psychs cost $100+ every hour, and frankly I don't have any money. Years of isolation tend to do that.

I thank God for the gift of the grace to simply "hold on", yes. My godmother gave me the Vatican II Liturgy of the Hours, and although it is inane in some places, I've managed to learn most of the Latin. The deeper theology and meaning in the original language offer many hours of consolation amidst the vagaries of fear and anxiety.

God is good.
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#45
I sympathise with you guys. It's hard to have good self image when you feel worthless. Especially when everyone around you is getting married or pursuing a vocation, whether religious or secular, and you feel unable to do so.

One thing that really helps is the thought that God doesn't let suffering go in vain. And the cross is the thing that makes us more like Christ if borne in patience. There's no other religion that teaches this deep truth.
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#46
(02-27-2014, 10:50 AM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: I sympathise with you guys. It's hard to have good self image when you feel worthless. Especially when everyone around you is getting married or pursuing a vocation, whether religious or secular, and you feel unable to do so.

One thing that really helps is the thought that God doesn't let suffering go in vain. And the cross is the thing that makes us more like Christ if borne in patience. There's no other religion that teaches this deep truth.

This is very true, however it can't become a reason for thwarting outward looking expression. People with SSA have a place in the Church beyond suffering and it's time for the Catholic Church to give serious thought to ways in which the single lay-life can be shaped into a worthy vocation, endorsed and supported by the community. There are similar models traditionally open to unmarried women - the consecrated virgin lives out a vocation in the world, embodying a definitive vocation in and of itself. It's an exciting time and there's plenty that can be done to bring people deeper into the Church, closer to Christ.
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#47
What a great
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#48
Ptochos, what a strange set of experiences! I've never seen two middle-aged men walking together and assumed that anyone else saw them as anything but friends. This makes absolutely no sense to me. Are people in your area very uptight about sexuality to the point where two friends walking together are suspected of being a couple? Do you somehow make it obvious that you're close friends? Maybe most people see two men together more than once, and they assume a same-sex relationship! Wow...

On further reflection, I admit that I, myself, have fallen to this temptation. In our novus ordo church, every Sunday night I see two men come in together and sit together in the same place. From what I've heard of them speaking, they are very comfortable with each other. Due to my own sinfulness and experiences, I presumed. For the longest time, I assumed they were "together", especially because it's a novus ordo parish and thus no one cares about the morals of anyone else (except when it comes to Bingo; then everyone's a rigourist). This year I found out that I had never truly looked at one of the men: he is blind or at least severely visually impaired and his friend helps him to a pew and to holy communion ever week. Interesting what our culture and mindset can do to us, no?
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#49
(02-27-2014, 11:16 AM)Heorot Wrote: Ptochos, what a strange set of experiences! I've never seen two middle-aged men walking together and assumed that anyone else saw them as anything but friends. This makes absolutely no sense to me. Are people in your area very uptight about sexuality to the point where two friends walking together are suspected of being a couple? Do you somehow make it obvious that you're close friends? Maybe most people see two men together more than once, and they assume a same-sex relationship! Wow...

On further reflection, I admit that I, myself, have fallen to this temptation. In our novus ordo church, every Sunday night I see two men come in together and sit together in the same place. From what I've heard of them speaking, they are very comfortable with each other. Due to my own sinfulness and experiences, I presumed. For the longest time, I assumed they were "together", especially because it's a novus ordo parish and thus no one cares about the morals of anyone else (except when it comes to Bingo; then everyone's a rigourist). This year I found out that I had never truly looked at one of the men: he is blind or at least severely visually impaired and his friend helps him to a pew and to holy communion ever week. Interesting what our culture and mindset can do to us, no?
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#50
At a tangent: "passing" is part of the problem, the internalized sense of shame, and partly why people with SSA leave the Church in such numbers. If an individual is not heterosexual, there should be no compunction to treat orientation as a role to be played. Actively seeking to pass is, I think, somewhat sinful behaviour in so far as it's lying - pure and simple.

BTW I know this is misdirected in so far as you (Ptochos) may not be working towards passing (by carefully controlling your identity performance in public... what a tiring and self-destructive exercise that can be) but people just "assume." That assumption is what I take issue with too though. It's part of the culture of hiding that keeps people with SSA from finding viable role models in the Catholic Church, and flourishing in their spiritual lives as part of the community. Because no matter what some may believe, SSA is not simply about sexual acts. It's an issue of identity too, and that shouldn't be a scary thing to admit.
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