The Experiences of Homosexual Trads
(02-26-2014, 09:10 PM)Papist Wrote: For the most part I consider it a private struggle, and I am not sure that there is any benefit to myself or to others in sharing it. I could be wrong. The Eastern Orthodox monk Fr. Seraphim Rose was open about his past and his struggles in this matter, but he was a very saintly man.

I agree with this, Papist.

Have you read this story before?

The Orthodox have uniformly retained a very good understanding of same-sex attractions. Broadly-speaking, you won't find pro-gay orthodox, gay-liberation orthodox, moderate orthodox, or conservative orthodox. In this matter, they're just Orthodox.

Quote:It's interesting that several of us observe that when we have healthy friendships with men, the SSA is not an issue. It's good evidence that SSA is not an orientation in the way that secular society would like us to think but, rather, it is a defect indicating developmental issues.

This was my case in 2010. After having spent 3 years in almost total isolation (not leaving my home more than 20 times in 36 months) due to extreme anxiety and self-hatred, I went out to become Catholic. I had only seen the Latin Mass, and I was expecting that when I went to the local cathedral. I was disappointed, but thankfully the first people I meet were very well-formed Franciscans. Not having ever known friendship or helpful father figures, coming into contact with these mature, purposeful Christians was like a revelation. Having befriended one of them very closely over a period of several months, there came one point, on a single day, when I spontaneously envisioned making love to a wife, and for some reason it seemed good and desirable. That happened only once, when I was just reaching that point between "newness" of friendship and intimacy in friendship with a mature, self-contained human being. I've not had such a desire for the opposite sex since. I wonder if this is connected with the fact that I developed a very unhealthy attraction toward this very masculine friend thereafter?

When I saw my friend more as a role model in a "disinterested friendship", as the Catechism says, I was suddenly "becoming straight'; when I started to cling more to him, to use him, and to possess him, I developed an extreme affection for him bordering on obsessive love. We are still close friends, by the way, but he has had to put up very intense boundaries in the midst of our intimacy, at least until I am healed. He is an incredibly patient man, and still makes time to discuss things with me despite having been ordained a priest. He's no traditionalist by any stretch of the imagination, but he has a traditional understanding of the passions. This has helped immensely, and the more detached I become from the "need" of his strong personality (as a boy needs his dad), the less my homosexual passions flare up.

Others' same-sex attractions may not be based on immaturity, anxiety, and lack of growth like mine... but I will always hold to my theory about nurture over nature. Either way, it's gonna be a long haul to Heaven.

(02-26-2014, 09:15 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: One reason that readily comes to mind is that there aren't fetishist activists wanting to re-define marriage or push information about their fetishes into the heads of 6 year olds. Homosexualist activists (which, again, I totally distinguish from mere homosexuals) are a force that needs to be confronted and dealt with.

This is a good point. Even as an atheist, I was disgusted with the gay-activism groups around me. Being a conservative, pro-life atheist could only last so long, I guess. Either abandon logical positions, or abandon your atheism. :LOL: Even in high school I was really pissed off at the "gay pride" events and the "gay-straight alliance", and their stupid day of silence, wearing tape over their mouths to protest whatever-the-heck. I despise superficiality and publicity stunts. It's why I don't like most gays I meet (those who identify as Gay, mind you)...: they're just so bloody gimmicky about their lives. The most I ever did to support the gay movement was watch "Queer as Folk" (absolutely evil, demonic trash, btw - don't watch it). When I realized that the Lifestyle is all superficial sexuality, dance clubs, drugs, and hopeless cycles of abandonment, I definitively said 'no'. I believe that was the moment God began supernaturally working in my own individual life, turning the gears to bring me to the river of living water which flows from the One seated upon the Throne, and the Lamb.

Vox Clamantis Wrote:A good percentage of homosexuals have really good taste LOL

I wouldn't say that about the extremely "fey" ones who made everything fabulous. I do believe some very, very tasteless homosexuals were behind the 1960s-1970s revolution in church design and furnishing. Can you honestly imagine a self-confidently straight man, in full bloom of masculinity, approving felt banners for the 'worship space'?

Vox Clamantis Wrote:I want to grab you and hug you so hard right now. Oh, my gosh.. You are NOT "useless, worthless, or pointless" -- "even as" a homosexual. No! Oh, no, no, no, Heorot! You are a beloved child of God Himself, adopted son of the Father through the grace of Christ! You are so loved that if you could feel it, you'd die of it! God most certainly has plans for you. You must believe this -- trust in this. Trust in Jesus. Make yourself of service to others -- especially if you can do it in a way that uses any special gifts you might have (drawing, teaching, etc.) Teach RCIA classes! Write a blog to help other homosexual Catholics! Become a teacher! Or do the old "soup kitchen routine" to serve others. You are here to love God and love others. That's what ALL of us are here to do, whether we're married or priests or single. You just have to find your way of doing that the best way you can, that's all. That's what we ALL have to do! We're not so different! I'm a 51-year old, broke-ass, bipolar woman who got dumped -- and I SMOKE. Ya know? We are legion, folks like you and me! We're fine -- or, if we're not right at the moment, we will be, can be! And if we have bad days or nights sometimes -- well, that's what friends are for.

MAN do I really want to start that "club" thing now... Sheesh!

Thank you for the sisterly encouragement, Vox. My problem is probably personal: I have a very warped vision of the Body of Christ based on my own anxiety, probably resultant from years of intense self-deprecation. I do not see any vocation except priesthood as meaningful - probably because I want to be a priest, but feel too weak and too sinful in my same-sex attractions, rejected by the Church. I've always had a huge problem with rejection, abandonment, and loneliness... and I believe the experiences which cause those fears also led to developing homosexual desires. The lack of friends, and the closeness other guys seemed to experience, built up inside me over years and years of isolation, and I wanted to possess every part of them, including their sexuality. I never could, and it became worse and worse until I became incapable of seeing myself as anything other than a faggot, scum, and worthless to every part of the world.

This may sound like a psychotherapy session and overly dramatic, but I assure you I never pour this out to anyone. The psychs I've been to have been atheistic liberals, and if I ever mentioned the same-sex attractions, they'd ignore them as perfectly normal. I'm sure if I'd said they were unwanted attractions, the psychologists would've preferred that I reconcile myself with the attractions, rather than with the will of God for mankind.

Ironically, despite the fearsome picture of Christians that the Westboro Baptist types gave me as an atheist, I've never met a single Catholic who was violently homophobic. The first person I ever told was a Franciscan brother who is so saintly he might as well just be a puppy on the doorstep of Heaven. The second was a brother from Italy, the third a brother from Germany, and then on and on. The only trad I ever knew outside Fishies was very disturbed by the information, and we never talked about it after a single mention. I think some trad mindsets have a Puritan-like aspect, at least in North America. They don't just see this issue as a perversion, but something simply to ignore, very awkwardly and nervously, hoping it goes away.

You know, the only thing I desire as a human being is friendship. To me, a close friend really has to know about the SSA I experience, because it has defined my self-image so much that to leave it out would be a grave omission in a close friendship based on trust. The dilemma is that I don't believe SSA defines my humanity. There's no such thing as a Gay Person or a Homosexual Person. Using those terms furthers Satan's plan for that movement, believe me! They want to take hold of as many titles as they can. "SSAs" is a simple plural noun for us.

By the way, Vox, I actually started a blog after seeing this thread. Needs to be set up properly.

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Re: The Experiences of Homosexual Trads - by Heorot - 02-26-2014, 11:02 PM

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