The Experiences of Homosexual Trads
(02-27-2014, 01:23 AM)mortify Wrote: This is an awesome thread!

I'm not gay but I can feel for persons with SSA. I mean here you are, denied ever being able to experience love with a partner, and further having to be told that your attractions are "disordered." It's not hard to think why many don't choose a Catholic lifestyle! And although it is absolutely true that SSA is a disordered attraction, how do we make people with SSA feel welcome? It's so tragic that so many men and women have to go through this struggle alone. I can't imagine how tough that is! Perhaps some tight knit networking is needed. A hybrid between a monastery and secular life, where folks called to a single life can continue working in the world but still somehow support each other. It's a difficult topic to address needless to say, but certainly Trad attitudes need to change.

Anyway, back to my corner watching this unfold

We should not make ourselves so pitiable... or at least, I shouldn't do so. Melkite is his usual zealous self, and Papist is his customary strong self. Their stories are not sad. My own is difficult, but I have not given it for emotional affect. I apologize if I've tugged the emotions a bit too much - for even that can be an excitement of the passions, which can lead to sin for everyone involved.

Not sure how trad attitudes could change, given the warmth already expressed in this thread. Perhaps Fishies has been "cleansed" of the "bad trads", but it remains a trad forum and the reaction in this thread has been good. It reflects something true.

To make SSA people feel welcome, in my opinion, begins with acknowledging their struggle with particular sin, telling them that they are 100% human, on a level of exact equality with their fellow baptized, and then saying no more of it. To continue to focus on it, as if it were a special sin or some sort of life-defining reality, is only to encourage the self-identity with sexual desires. Those who are especially broken and deeply-sunken into the life would either 1. not try to become Catholic in the first place, 2. become liberal Catholics, not trads, or 3. desperately need a Catholic psychologist before anything else can happen.

As to a society of quasi-monastic, quasi-secular life, there are always dangers and joys. Men who experience same-sex attractions have almost uniformly had overbearing mothers and distant fathers. Every last one I've met has been this way. We see other men as comforting, protecting, and reassuring replacements for the angry or neglectful or abusive dad. We see women, perhaps, as "fag hags", but more deeply as continuations of the extremely nervous, mousey, or picky mother. Living in community with other men would need strict regulation, whether it is a secular, a monastic, or mixed form of life. In the end, if SSA-men can live together quasi-monastically, why should they not be able to live together monastically? It seems a bit of a double standard. The Orthodox, again, are very insistent about this: same-sex attractions are no different from the wish to murder, or commit gluttony, or steal - a sin is a sin. To bar genuinely-repentant men from monasticism or even priesthood because they were homosexual makes as much sense as barring a former murderer, glutton, or thief. Of course, homosexuality is much more deeply rooted in the identity than those sins, but it remains a disorder like them.

Difficult questions!

(02-27-2014, 03:13 AM)mortify Wrote: Vox, I commend you for addressing this topic, that is what I meant by the "awesomeness" of this thread. It's the elephant in the room. I too am deeply moved by the struggle our brothers and sisters with SSA have to endure. It's painful to see human beings made in the image of God belittling themselves. I'm very glad we're talking about this.

An elephant in the room, indeed. Many people do associate us with paedophilia, for one, and it is an easy leap to make. Historically, same-sex attractions were caught up in pederasty. The ultra-effeminate Oxford-movement Anglo-Catholics were almost all Uranian poets and pederasts. Many nominal-Catholic gays would probably be attracted to traditionalism if it was shorn of its morality, ethics, and faithfulness to Catholic tradition; after all, baroque surplices look like doilies, wedding dresses, and lingerie. As a male with SSA who forced myself to be masculine, I find most traditional vestments to be repulsive. A more effeminate gay man, however, would revel in a warped mystery of being "the spouse of Christ", all dressed up and dramatic, floating a thurible around with flare and performing every liturgical action with flamboyance. Thank God traditionalism has the guts to stand up for what is right, even if it is sometimes in a Puritanical and nervous way.

The great pain is, indeed, the belittling of the image of God in us. The image of our empty father, or our overbearing mother, or our broken "non-self", are often more prominent in our consciences than the image of God. We see a mirror of ourselves in other SSA-men, not a mirror of Christ. Conquering this darkness is probably one of the greatest struggles in modern society. I hope it remains a hidden struggle for most, because the opportunities for drama, exaggeration, and hyperbole are many. I personally feel uncomfortable just revealing my SSA online, anonymously, because it puts such undue focus on my self. I wonder if that's self-deprecation, or real humility.  :Hmm:

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Re: The Experiences of Homosexual Trads - by Heorot - 02-27-2014, 07:47 AM

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