The Experiences of Homosexual Trads
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(02-27-2014, 12:33 PM)Ptochos Wrote:
(02-27-2014, 12:13 PM)loggats Wrote:
(02-27-2014, 12:00 PM)Ptochos Wrote:
(02-27-2014, 11:44 AM)loggats Wrote: At a tangent: "passing" is part of the problem, the internalized sense of shame, and partly why people with SSA leave the Church in such numbers. If an individual is not heterosexual, there should be no compunction to treat orientation as a role to be played. Actively seeking to pass is, I think, somewhat sinful behaviour in so far as it's lying - pure and simple.

BTW I know this is misdirected in so far as you (Ptochos) may not be working towards passing (by carefully controlling your identity performance in public... what a tiring and self-destructive exercise that can be) but people just "assume." That assumption is what I take issue with too though. It's part of the culture of hiding that keeps people with SSA from finding viable role models in the Catholic Church, and flourishing in their spiritual lives as part of the community. Because no matter what some may believe, SSA is not simply about sexual acts. It's an issue of identity too, and that shouldn't be a scary thing to admit.


I don't know how old you are or where you live but keep in mind that for some of us, "passing" is a matter of survival. This is less of an issue today, at least in the U.S., but was a very big issue in my formative years. I was the object of violence and threats on an ongoing basis for the first 30 years or so of my life. I hardly think developing the ability to hide this orientation is "lying pure and simple." I don't believe it qualifies as a lie since it is made under direct threat of violence and in any case, it is anything but "lying pure and simple."

I apologise for coming across as patronizing. I can't imagine what it must have been like, though I think a lot of SSA individuals in the Church today feel the need to "pass" even without the threat of physical violence. Indeed, I can believe that passing back then was a matter of life and death in some cases. This is a cause for celebration (yes we're allowed to celebrate some things about our contemporary culture) - a SSA individual is no longer under constant threat of physical violence and/or death today in the West. That's why it weights so heavily on my heart when people who profess Christianity celebrate the legislation being passed in Uganda, and want to see it replicated elsewhere.

Apology accepted and no hard feelings.

But going back my original post where I describe what happened when I was perceived as homosexual in the TLM group 9 years ago, what do you say to that?

I see 3 options:

1) I try to "pass" with that group and hope to make some friends, who once they get to know me won't hold it against me when they find out the truth;

2) Ignore the fact that - as happened 9 years in the same parish - I may become a persona non grata once people figure it out. In this case, do I continue to attend Mass where no one acknowledges my existence - looks the other way, never recognizes that I exist.

3) Go to the most reverent NO parish I can find.

If I were you I'd go to the TLM, make no effort to hide the reality of the situation, and witness to those people by my presence. You may even provide a valuable example to young SSA people there undergoing whatever indoctrination leads to supposed Catholics "holding it against you." A homosexual living his faith in a holy life - a scandal to the homophobe, and a stumbling block to the trads. ;)

Alternatively, since that would be quite an undertaking, option 3 seems like it would be great too. We all need a welcoming community who'll know and love us for ourselves.
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Re: The Experiences of Homosexual Trads - by loggats - 02-27-2014, 12:39 PM



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