The Experiences of Homosexual Trads
(02-27-2014, 11:44 AM)loggats Wrote: At a tangent: "passing" is part of the problem, the internalized sense of shame, and partly why people with SSA leave the Church in such numbers. If an individual is not heterosexual, there should be no compunction to treat orientation as a role to be played. Actively seeking to pass is, I think, somewhat sinful behaviour in so far as it's lying - pure and simple.

BTW I know this is misdirected in so far as you (Ptochos) may not be working towards passing (by carefully controlling your identity performance in public... what a tiring and self-destructive exercise that can be) but people just "assume." That assumption is what I take issue with too though. It's part of the culture of hiding that keeps people with SSA from finding viable role models in the Catholic Church, and flourishing in their spiritual lives as part of the community. Because no matter what some may believe, SSA is not simply about sexual acts. It's an issue of identity too, and that shouldn't be a scary thing to admit.

Wow.. This thread's gotten busy since I've last had the chance to look at it (am babysitting today -- and my grandson took his first steps!)

First, I want to say, "Go, go, go!" to Heorot for starting a blog. You have so much going on in your life, a lot of "issues" (as a lot of us do!), that I am really glad to see you doing that -- branching out, opening yourself up, putting yourself "out there" some. GOOD stuff! With a blog and a Christian attitude, you can do a LOT to help other people!

I'm choosing this post to use to jump back into the thread because its topic is something that I think is crucial to anyone with SSA:  to "pass" and just shut up -- or to reveal who you are, what your struggles are?

Further down, Ptochos brought up the matter of violence and other types of abuse against folks who are "out." I don't think anyone would expect a person with SSA to risk that sort of thing. But for those for whom being "out" doesn't really carry that sort of risk, the question is still there:  to be "out" or not? 

Me, I tend to agree with Loggats, but I'm one of those touchy-feely INFJ types who likes the idea of people being "real" with each other, deeply knowing each other. That might be the result of one of my personal drives, which is to be UNDERSTOOD (and loved anyway), something that is rare for me and which I crave. What Loggats says about the exhaustion involved in feigning who you are, and how folks hiding themselves away deprives others in their situation of role models, etc -- I totally agree. Plus there's just the matter of basic honesty, of integrity and being integrated -- one and the same in public and in private, one and the same externally and internally (aside from the basic requirements of civilization, manners, and politness, obviously). And as was said further down in the thread, some folks will out and out ask, and when they do, should one lie? And many who wouldn't ask are making assumptions.

I'd guess that a lot of that, for a given individual, would go to how private they are about themselves, and that's all good. But I think, overall, that at LEAST homosexuals SHOULD be able to be forthright about what the deal is. One'd think that that should especially be so in a CHURCH -- THE Church. I find it disgusting that the opposite seems to be too often the case.

Then this all goes back to earlier posts that dealt with terminology and the concept that one shouldn't "identify oneself"  in terms of a given struggle. But, like I said, no one takes issue with a bipolar person saying, "I'm bipolar," or of a schizophrenic using the word "schizophrenic" to describe himself.  So I don't understand that sort of thinking.

I dunno... In my ideal world, people could just be who they are, and folks would have humility, empathy, and charity.

Also to Heorot:  my idea for building a community of celibates didn't entail their living together (at least not necessarily. At least, that's not what I was thinking). I was talking about my dream of having a bigger house (with a kitchen), etc. so we could have meetings in a cozy place, that's all. But the more I think about the idea of forming some sort of community for single people, the more I love the idea. If I had the resources, I would.


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Re: The Experiences of Homosexual Trads - by VoxClamantis - 02-27-2014, 08:39 PM

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