Do not circumcise! If you have been, non-surgical foreskin restoration possible!
#61
(11-11-2020, 10:37 PM)Melkite Wrote: But if your circumcision bothers you to the point that it is causing you grief and discord

I never said I fit the eligibility criteria, but I find it a interesting moral question because I don't see what this process really accomplishes aside from an increase in sexual pleasure or self esteem (if the latter term can really be used in place of pride).  The idea of doing something that increases sexual pleasure being morally permissible is well... just tough to comprehend when you consider just what is being done in this process (as in, it's not a simple thing but a process that requires a lot of dedication, so it's not really something done on a whim), and there are so many pitfalls one weak in chastity could fall into by doing this.  I just can't picture Saint Augustine speaking highly of this process.

Perhaps it's simply a lack of experience on my part, but unless one can testify to the experience of living uncircumcised and circumcised, is it really that noticeable of a difference?  Is it really something you'd want to invest time, effort and pain into reversing, even though what you're doing is not a true reversal?  If you're really unsound of mind and not at peace over this, that says to me you have bigger problems.

I suppose doing this also permanently ruins one's chances of a proper restoration that would include restoring the nerve endings lost in circumcision, should such a morally-licit method, involving stem cells or something, ever be developed.

And something I've long wondered, and this seems about a good enough place as any to ask... in the Hellenistic world and preceding times, how would anyone have ever known if a man was circumcised or not?  Considering the private area of the body involved, I don't understand how it could become public knowledge to others. I don't understand how this was a sign under Judaism. Really, who would know?
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#62
(11-12-2020, 10:47 AM)NSMSSS Wrote:
(11-11-2020, 10:37 PM)Melkite Wrote: But if your circumcision bothers you to the point that it is causing you grief and discord

I never said I fit the eligibility criteria, but I find it a interesting moral question because I don't see what this process really accomplishes aside from an increase in sexual pleasure or self esteem (if the latter term can really be used in place of pride).  The idea of doing something that increases sexual pleasure being morally permissible is well... just tough to comprehend when you consider just what is being done in this process (as in, it's not a simple thing but a process that requires a lot of dedication, so it's not really something done on a whim), and there are so many pitfalls one weak in chastity could fall into by doing this.  I just can't picture Saint Augustine speaking highly of this process.

Perhaps it's simply a lack of experience on my part, but unless one can testify to the experience of living uncircumcised and circumcised, is it really that noticeable of a difference?  Is it really something you'd want to invest time, effort and pain into reversing, even though what you're doing is not a true reversal?  If you're really unsound of mind and not at peace over this, that says to me you have bigger problems.

I suppose doing this also permanently ruins one's chances of a proper restoration that would include restoring the nerve endings lost in circumcision, should such a morally-licit method, involving stem cells or something, ever be developed.

And something I've long wondered, and this seems about a good enough place as any to ask... in the Hellenistic world and preceding times, how would anyone have ever known if a man was circumcised or not?  Considering the private area of the body involved, I don't understand how it could become public knowledge to others.  I don't understand how this was a sign under Judaism.  Really, who would know?

I don't see any problem with doing it to increase sexual pleasure within marriage.  Remember, the greater amount of pleasure one experiences uncircumcised is how God designed it to be.  If God designed licit sex to be more pleasurable than most circumcised men are capable of experiencing, then I can't see how it would be a sin to try to restore something to the level God intended.  I certainly have no respect for the idea that it is sinful to try to restore what God designed, but not sinful to wreck it, as circumcision does.  Saint Augustine lead a lecherous lifestyle prior to his conversion; I think it's safe to say his views on sexuality are somewhat skewed, in the direction of prudishness, as an overreaction to his past life.

Most men who were circumcised as adults and speak about it openly say it was one of the worst decisions of their life because of how much sensitivity they have lost.  There will certainly be variability depending on the style of circumcision, and it is possible to circumcise adults in a way that will not affect sensitivity significantly.  However, this does not normally take place if the the patient isn't aware to request this style of circumcision.  For me personally, I go back and forth between whether I should restore or wait for regeneration to be available.  Restoration would not make regeneration impossible, but would probably require the restored skin to be amputated prior to regeneration/implantation of the regenerated foreskin.  I realize that restoration would only make me marginally closer to uncircumcised than I currently am, but I am also old enough that waiting for regeneration to be available would mean it will happen at a time when I'm old enough for it to be nearly pointless to have the procedure done.  But I am a perfectionist, and I know I'd never be satisfied with restoration, either.  I go back and forth on how I should handle it.

The reason Jews were trying to undo their circumcision in the Hellenistic world was because athletic competition was done nude.  There was no hiding one's circumcision status, and an exposed penis head was offensive in Greek culture.  To the uncircumcised, an uncovered head signifies arousal, so to the Greeks, the Jews were seen as being in a state of permanent arousal, and thus sexual gluttons.  The ancient Greeks and Romans would have seen modern Americans in the same light.
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#63
My husband is circumcised and has a scar from it. He never really thought about it until we had our son and decided that it was a cruel thing to inflict on a little baby. We decided not to circumcise our son, much to the chagrin of our family.
St. Joseph, Terror of Demons, Pillar of Families, Glory of Domestic Life, Pray for Us!
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#64
Quote:(snip) I don't see what this process really accomplishes aside from an increase in sexual pleasure or self esteem (if the latter term can really be used in place of pride). (snip)


The "increase in sexual pleasure" wouldn't be wrong (sexual pleasure is a gift from God, meant to be experienced in marriage, in an ordinate way), and know that sexual pleasure involved wouldn't be just that of the circumcized man, but also that of the wife of the circumcized man. Circumcision's removal of the foreskin means lots more chafing for the wife of the circumcized (a study about that: https://bjui-journals.onlinelibrary.wile...830s1079.x)

Because of porn and the push of the idea that "uncircumcized=dirty," some women might prefer the look of a circumcized penis (a look which simulates that of an erect penis, think about it), but the act of intercourse itself involves a lot more chafing and less pleasure with the circumcized (and the preference of females conditioned by porn, etc., isn't a good reason to circumcize any more than breast implants are a good thing to get because some men have pornified brains) (it goes without saying that uncircumcized men have to know how to clean themselves, but the same thing can be said about women and their labia or pendulous breasts. Hygiene isn't a good reason to remove body parts).
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