The GoreTex!
#13
(03-01-2014, 09:51 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: Again, I wouldn't say that Mr. Voris "has not so much regard tor the truth" even "at times."

Actually, apart from the apparent motive for it, the manifesto itself declares that he is: It states that the truth of papal shortcomings should be hidden.


Quote:But I do think that his going after Verecchio, et. al., is very uncool.  Like Austenbosten, I can totally understand Mr. Voris's decision to not want to talk about the Holy Father himself -- and I don't like disrespect shown toward the Holy Father anywhere, "disprespectful" criticism being totally different from respectful criticism or simply respectfully expressing confusion about or respectfully lamenting something he might do or say.

Voris' decision to refuse to criticize anything the holy father does is a preposterous position, actually.  Valid criticism of the pontiff goes back to St. Paul and is enshrined in sacred Scripture as a lesson for us - as many theologians, saints, and *popes* have pointed out.  Rebuke of superiors when they err publicly is ordained in canon law as well.

It goes without saying that disrespect for the purpose of the holy father or any other person is wrong.

People who think they are doing the Church, the faithful, or even the pontiff a favor by remaining silent in the face of clearly erroneous, un-Catholic statements and actions are sadly mistaken (but such is the nature of this crisis).  I like this quote from Bishop Melchior Cano, Theologian of the Council of Trent:

"Peter has no need for our lies or flattery.  Those who blindly and indiscriminately defend every decision of the supreme pontiff are the very ones who do the most to undermine the authority of the Holy See - they destroy instead of strengthening its foundations."

(I don't personally care for the phrase "I can understand..." as it really says nothing; it is entirely subjective.  What does it have to do with what's right and best what I can understand?  I can understand - to some extent - a number of bad things.  They are still bad.)


Quote:But to go after folks who do decide to "go there" -- assuming they're doing so with respect, with humility, while giving the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt whenever possible, while not impugning motives, etc.  -- me no likey.

Going after such folks is exactly what Mr. Voris has decided to do.


Quote:I like what Mr. Voris does, as far as he goes, and think his apostolate is a very needed one. I wish he hadn't done what he did with regard to the trads he went after. It's sad to me.

Frankly, I have thought for years that sometimes his criticism of bishops was *too* biting.  He often does not properly cite sources for what he asserts.  As it became increasingly obvious that every bishop save the Bishop of Rome was fair game for him, I began to lose interest in his work.  (If challenged I can't really offer specific support for this - it's just a general feeling that grew on me over time.)

I think the modern Catholic's sense of papalotry is entirely a *making* of this crisis.  Good Catholics in previous times understood perfectly well that pointing out un-Catholic behavior of *any* prelate is entirely fair-game.  It is more than "fair" - it is necessary for the good of the Church and her souls.

It is only because the post-conciliar popes have embraced novelty after novelty that criticism towards them became so frequent and so intense, and the reaction of the neo-Catholic is - papalotry.


Quote:I hope folks here don't "take sides" and decide to "shun" one group or the other, or to operate with the gang-banging mentality of "he's one of THEM" or "they're some of THOSE." There's room for Mr. Voris's work and Verecchio's work and and Matt's work and and and... There's room enough for all of us -- even if some of us don't think there is and might cut people off.

I'd say it's best for everyone to strive for perfection.
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Messages In This Thread
The GoreTex! - by The Catholic Thinker - 03-01-2014, 06:27 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by The Catholic Thinker - 03-01-2014, 06:59 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by Dmorgan - 03-01-2014, 08:12 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by austenbosten - 03-01-2014, 08:19 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by Dmorgan - 03-01-2014, 09:21 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by The Catholic Thinker - 03-01-2014, 09:27 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by austenbosten - 03-01-2014, 09:39 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by VoxClamantis - 03-01-2014, 09:51 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by Qoheleth - 03-01-2014, 10:09 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by austenbosten - 03-01-2014, 10:20 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by VoxClamantis - 03-01-2014, 10:22 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by formerbuddhist - 03-01-2014, 10:22 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by The Catholic Thinker - 03-01-2014, 11:10 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by VoxClamantis - 03-01-2014, 11:18 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by formerbuddhist - 03-01-2014, 11:35 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by The Catholic Thinker - 03-01-2014, 11:48 PM
Re: The GoreTex! - by VoxClamantis - 03-02-2014, 12:23 AM
Re: The GoreTex! - by VoxClamantis - 03-02-2014, 12:33 AM
Re: The GoreTex! - by austenbosten - 03-02-2014, 12:40 AM
Re: The GoreTex! - by VoxClamantis - 03-02-2014, 01:01 AM



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