Pope: Don't Clericalize Lay People
#21
(03-25-2014, 09:38 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(03-24-2014, 04:21 PM)maldon Wrote: Excellent! This has been sooooo overdue!
And just the other day he mentioned Hell (though he was poo-pooed for that too, because he didn't mention Hell on x, y, and z occasions, so maybe this will be poo-poo'ed as well.

Anyway, refreshingly good to hear this.

Bwaaaaah I'm a nay-sayer Trad and dis Pope sucks....he's obviously doing it to suck up to the liberals.

Gays, Liberals, Nuns on da bus, and Cardinal Dolan should be the only ones targeted!

Grrrrrrrrr.....I reveal the joys of being a Catholic by showing how cranky and miserable I am  >:(

Lovely stereotype.

When has the pope been "targeting" gays, liberals, Nuns on the Bus, or Dolan?

Any of these folks have their right to say or hear the Novus Ordo Mass revoked recently?  Did I miss that maybe?
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#22
Interestingly, in my experience the Eastern Catholic/Orthodox mindset of the liturgy is perfectly balanced:

The clergy alone can celebrate the Holy Mysteries - but canonically, they cannot do so without the people present.
The clergy alone sing verses - but the whole congregation is supposed to make response, not just the altar servers.
Everyone sings - all the time. The idea of a Low Mass is very strange to our Eastern friends.
People may come and go, light candles, and pray in their own manner during the holy sacrifice, yet are united to it.
Women do not altar-serve, but they do many unseen things without which the parish would fall apart.

Something just feels more balanced about it all. In my opinion, the Fathers who "implemented" Vatican II looked to the Eastern practice of singing, participation, anaphora, but only took a very short time to do so. They also applied rationalist western concepts to the liturgies they met, reducing them and changing them in such a way that their identity was gone anyway.

Of course, I'm an advocate for abolishing the Roman Rite entirely and switching the whole Church over to a 4-hour-long St. Basil or St. Chrysostom liturgy... but I guess I'm a reactionary (11th-century style).

...then again, knowing the Latin rite today, someone would probably just find a way to insert guitars and bongos at the epiklesis.
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#23
Well, the pope says don't clericalize lay people yet the Vatican Radio has given a voice to a group whose intended purpose is to do just that. I'm not impliying the Pope is complicent in this but he should get the troops to operate under the same battle plan so to speak, being the Church Militant and all...

"The website of Vatican Radio shows that they did a piece on Future Church."

One of the stated goals of Future Church is

"We explore the future of our Catholic sacramental life if nothing is done about the priest shortage. Our intention is to urge Catholics to start talking about what the priest shortage means to them and their parishes. We particularly encourage the formation of dialogue groups in parishes and small faith communities. Materials address the scope of the priest shortage, trends in ecclesial ministry, and related issues, such as the history of celibacy in the Church, and communion services and worship in the absence of a priest. We also provide materials on organizing, media relations and prayer services. Our "Parish Celebration of the Feast of the Body and Blood of Christ," calls for reflection on the true meaning of the Eucharist and prayers to commemorate our Eucharistic identity. The Corpus Christi service can be ordered separately or with our FOPM packet."

Father Z's article is here.

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/03/vatican-r...re-church/

And this issue is representative of a reason for cynicism of trads. The Pope says one thing and behind the scenes all this other stuff is going on. No wonder Cardinal O'Malley is a rock star this is his modus operandi. Say the right words to anesthetize the Masses all the while deconstructing things in the background, this is reminiscent of the boiling frog anecdote.

I don't really care anymore to argue about this anymore, those folks with their heads in the sand will get the Church they deserve.... Good luck with that!
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#24
(03-25-2014, 11:09 PM)A Catholic Thinker Wrote:
(03-25-2014, 09:38 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(03-24-2014, 04:21 PM)maldon Wrote: Excellent! This has been sooooo overdue!
And just the other day he mentioned Hell (though he was poo-pooed for that too, because he didn't mention Hell on x, y, and z occasions, so maybe this will be poo-poo'ed as well.

Anyway, refreshingly good to hear this.

Bwaaaaah I'm a nay-sayer Trad and dis Pope sucks....he's obviously doing it to suck up to the liberals.

Gays, Liberals, Nuns on da bus, and Cardinal Dolan should be the only ones targeted!

Grrrrrrrrr.....I reveal the joys of being a Catholic by showing how cranky and miserable I am  >:(

Lovely stereotype.

When has the pope been "targeting" gays, liberals, Nuns on the Bus, or Dolan?

Any of these folks have their right to say or hear the Novus Ordo Mass revoked recently?  Did I miss that maybe?

Bwahahaha!  :LOL:

Seriously I would like to see some criticism go there way, but yeah dude you basically fell into the stereotype by once again whining about the Pope as if he can never do right.
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#25
(03-26-2014, 08:58 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(03-25-2014, 11:09 PM)A Catholic Thinker Wrote:
(03-25-2014, 09:38 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(03-24-2014, 04:21 PM)maldon Wrote: Excellent! This has been sooooo overdue!
And just the other day he mentioned Hell (though he was poo-pooed for that too, because he didn't mention Hell on x, y, and z occasions, so maybe this will be poo-poo'ed as well.

Anyway, refreshingly good to hear this.

Bwaaaaah I'm a nay-sayer Trad and dis Pope sucks....he's obviously doing it to suck up to the liberals.

Gays, Liberals, Nuns on da bus, and Cardinal Dolan should be the only ones targeted!

Grrrrrrrrr.....I reveal the joys of being a Catholic by showing how cranky and miserable I am  >:(

Lovely stereotype.

When has the pope been "targeting" gays, liberals, Nuns on the Bus, or Dolan?

Any of these folks have their right to say or hear the Novus Ordo Mass revoked recently?  Did I miss that maybe?

Bwahahaha!  :LOL:

Seriously I would like to see some criticism go there way, but yeah dude you basically fell into the stereotype by once again whining about the Pope as if he can never do right.

I think your mechanism of evaluation is seriously flawed.

Acting as Christ's Vicar on Earth is not like taking an eye exam.
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