Jesuits in Rome looking to aliens to save humankind.
#11
(03-27-2014, 08:25 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: I have the scary feeling that all this alien stuff will be used to trick people into final apostasy ("Oh, look, the aliens are here to save us!"). I've read about MANY alleged "alien encounters" that completely stop when the Name of Jesus is called on. I think those experiences are very real -- but demonic in origin. It's all extremely creepy.

I was at BooksAMillion the other day and saw a book put out by some sort of Protestant Fundamentalists that actually claims that the Vatican is preparing the world to accept an alien messiah. Of course I do not believe the Catholic Church would or could do such a thing, but an anti-Church with an anti-Pope certainly could. If I'm correct St. Bernard was of the opinion that the anti-Christ would be an anti-pope and I tend to agree. I'm not saying that I believe Francis to be the anti-Christ though, only that the anti-Christ will be an anti-pope.
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#12
I used to correspond a bit with Mr. Synder.  When the topic turned to the Church, it turned out that he is quite a fundamentalist (not a surprise given some of his writings) - he started sending me Jack Chick tracts.  (For those who don't know who Chick is, he's the absolute worst of the anti-Catholic fundies: extremely hostile and extremely stupid.)

A frustration of the crisis is that it makes the true Church a harder sell, as she's more difficult to see.

I may try again at some point.
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#13
(03-27-2014, 09:11 PM)A Catholic Thinker Wrote: I used to correspond a bit with Mr. Synder.  When the topic turned to the Church, it turned out that he is quite a fundamentalist (not a surprise given some of his writings) - he started sending me Jack Chick tracts.  (For those who don't know who Chick is, he's the absolute worst of the anti-Catholic fundies: extremely hostile and extremely stupid.)

A frustration of the crisis is that it makes the true Church a harder sell, as she's more difficult to see.

I may try again at some point.

I have the entire, complete collection of Jack Chick tracts. They're unintentionally hilarious and would be nothing BUT hilarious if people didn't actually believe what's in them.
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#14
(03-27-2014, 08:42 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: I was at BooksAMillion the other day and saw a book put out by some sort of Protestant Fundamentalists that actually claims that the Vatican is preparing the world to accept an alien messiah. Of course I do not believe the Catholic Church would or could do such a thing, but an anti-Church with an anti-Pope certainly could. If I'm correct St. Bernard was of the opinion that the anti-Christ would be an anti-pope and I tend to agree. I'm not saying that I believe Francis to be the anti-Christ though, only that the anti-Christ will be an anti-pope.

To me, either a Jewish person involved with rebuilding the Third Temple, an anti-Pope, or a great (as in influential, not good) world leader are the three options that make any sense to me. Most Fathers, I believe, were convinced that the final Antichrist would come from the Tribe of Dan.
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#15
Aliens....word! What would a race of enlightened beings want with fallen humans? I mean really. Let's use our brains here. If aliens were living in a state of grace, why would they foul it up by inviting us on board? Now, I would make an exception if they were willing to pickup all the feminists as a sacrifice and leave the rest of us alone. I might be tempted to aide them in that quest  :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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#16
It is certainly possible, if not likely, that somewhere out there, there is another race of sentient beings.

They could be one of the three following:

Not fallen.  In full communion with God.  I suspect we would not see or find these folks.   And if they saw us first, they'd run.

Fallen, but redeemed.  Like us.  Nasty vicious creatures capable of grace but constantly tempted to conquer and rampage.  I'd not be happy meeting these folks.  Dangerous people they would be.

Fallen, not redeemed.  Our worst nightmare!  Utterly terrifying to find a technological race that is still in original sin and without any redeemer in sight.  Let us never meet these folks!
.   

Let me ask this:  Would your faith be shattered if we did discover aliens?  Or if they discovered us?

At the same time, let me also be very clear on my stance.  While I think it likely that there are alien species out there, due to the nature of space, the galactic speed limit, namely the speed of light, and in our own human experience, the length that civilizations last, I highly doubt we'll ever meet an alien race.  As one physicist , Fermi, pointed out:

The Sun is a young star. There are billions of stars in the galaxy that are billions of years older; Some of these stars probably have Earth-like planets which, if the Earth is typical, may develop intelligent life;
presumably, some of these civilizations will develop interstellar travel, a technology Earth is investigating even now, such as that used in the proposed 100 Year Starship;
at any practical pace of interstellar travel, the galaxy can be completely colonized in a few tens of millions of years.

So, We should be overrun with aliens at this point, given the size and age of the universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox




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#17
Jaegermeister, where do you put the odds of biogenesis?

Or, rather, what is one possible *process* of biogenesis?

There are none known, of course.  Darwin thought life spontaneously erupted out of muck but now we know that the simplest organism possible contains an absolutely staggering amount of information.

Now, if one is not a materialist this is all mostly irrelevant since God could cause the creation of life where & how He saw fit.  However, if one is not a materialist then studying the odds regarding life is meaningless. 

That said, you are correct that the existence of rational alien life is not immediately incompatible with Revelation.  It's not terribly easy to square, but not incompatible.

Secondly, I did not read the article carefully and believed, from the headline, that there was some Jesuit statement implying aliens could "save mankind".  Upon reading the article, that is not the case.  So, the foolishness of the article is mostly attributable to the author (Mr. Synder) himself.

(My credentials: I minored in physics.  And my astrophysics textbook took the stance (in an appendix, I believe - this was over 20 years ago) that the evolution of intelligent life is so unlikely that alien life is not likely to exist.  It is a myth that the scientific community has always regarded the existence of intelligent ("rational" would be the word the Thomist would use, implying ensoulment in the image of God) alien life as a foregone conclusion.  The smarter or more honest scientists understand that as biologists have absolutely no idea how life begins they also have absolutely no idea how to calculate odds of it occurring.)
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#18
Well, ACT, all we know for sure is that biogenesis happened at least once. 

It is entirely conceivable that we are alone, unique.  But, my common sense then nags me, and asks why the heck did God create such a massive universe? 

Also, one of my favorite science authors, Isaac Asimov, a confirmed atheist, God rest his soul, wrote a great article years ago, titled "The Power of Progression"

Here is a link to a summary/commentary.  Couldn't find the original essay.
http://www.triumf.info/wiki/pwalden/inde...on_problem

Now, his equations may be off by a bit here or there, but the crux of his idea was this.  At the current rate that our population is expanding, by 8700 A.D., we, humans will have used every carbon atom in the universe just to make more human bodies.  This has always fascinated me.  Now, maybe our rate of expansion will increase or decrease, but so long as our rate of expansion is positive, then maybe by 8700 A.D. or maybe 87000 A.D. we'll have used every carbon atom in the universe to replicate.  Either way, given that the universe is 15 billion or so years old, and the earth is 5 billion or so years old, that amount of time is just a blink of the eye, in cosmic terms.

I also find it hard to believe that if there is another intelligent race out there, and if they started before us, that they haven't already populated the universe. 

So, yeah, at the end of the day, I'd have to say there isn't any intelligent life out there.  Otherwise, as Fermi pointed out, we should see them everywhere.
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#19
Since the topic is on alien life forms, I was wondering if anyone here has had any close encounters that they don't mind sharing about. I've had four distinct experiences with UFO's and related phenomenon. I've never shared these before and I would like to get them off my chest. Maybe I should start a new thread?
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#20
(03-28-2014, 04:50 AM)jhfromsf68 Wrote: Since the topic is on alien life forms, I was wondering if anyone here has had any close encounters that they don't mind sharing about. I've had four distinct experiences with UFO's and related phenomenon. I've never shared these before and I would like to get them off my chest. Maybe I should start a new thread?

Please do! I'd like to hear about them. I'd be especially interested in knowing if you had such experiences while a Catholic, and (if relevant) calling on the Name of Jesus had any effect on the situations.

(Me, I've never had such experiences, and am very glad not to have had!)

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