Women Priests
#1
Hi all! I know my threads are usually rants about feminism, but this one isn't (sorta). I'm engaged in a debate with some looney tunes over at CBE Scroll (liberal protestants) and they claim in the 12th century the Catholic Church ordained women as priests. They referenced Alvin Schmidt's book "Veiled and Silenced, How culture shaped Sexist Theology." Any theologians around here care to take this one on. I'm not well versed in pre-18th century stuff.
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#2

Ask them to name just one.

And there's this from the Summa:  http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5039.htm


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#3
This is nonsense, based on the fact that (1) the ceremonies involving the making of an abbess, canoness or nun were sometimes referred to as "ordination", (2) there were once such persons as "deaconesses", whose job was to assist at the baptism of adult women for the sake of propriety, and (3) there were women called "episcopae" and "presbyterae".  The reason for this is simple, as anyone knows who has any contact with Greek Christians.  The Greek priest is called "presbyter", and the "presbytera" is his wife.
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#4

        I really hate to point this out; but would not the female equivalent be a "priestess?"  Am  I missing something?  I guess priestess conjures up images of pagan female clerics; so to sound Catholic they call females "priest." 

  Any ideas?

MC

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#5
(04-01-2014, 11:17 PM)spasiisochrani Wrote: This is nonsense, based on the fact that (1) the ceremonies involving the making of an abbess, canoness or nun were sometimes referred to as "ordination", (2) there were once such persons as "deaconesses", whose job was to assist at the baptism of adult women for the sake of propriety, and (3) there were women called "episcopae" and "presbyterae".  The reason for this is simple, as anyone knows who has any contact with Greek Christians.  The Greek priest is called "presbyter", and the "presbytera" is his wife.

Spasi, background please, since to my understanding Bishops have always been celibate.
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#6
Much thanks all! Keep that info rolling in and I'll be passing along the message lol!
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#7
(04-02-2014, 06:44 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(04-01-2014, 11:17 PM)spasiisochrani Wrote: This is nonsense, based on the fact that (1) the ceremonies involving the making of an abbess, canoness or nun were sometimes referred to as "ordination", (2) there were once such persons as "deaconesses", whose job was to assist at the baptism of adult women for the sake of propriety, and (3) there were women called "episcopae" and "presbyterae".  The reason for this is simple, as anyone knows who has any contact with Greek Christians.  The Greek priest is called "presbyter", and the "presbytera" is his wife.

Spasi, background please, since to my understanding Bishops have always been celibate.

Of your course you mean Bishops take a vow of celibacy, I couldn't resist....  :groucho:
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#8
(04-02-2014, 06:44 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(04-01-2014, 11:17 PM)spasiisochrani Wrote: This is nonsense, based on the fact that (1) the ceremonies involving the making of an abbess, canoness or nun were sometimes referred to as "ordination", (2) there were once such persons as "deaconesses", whose job was to assist at the baptism of adult women for the sake of propriety, and (3) there were women called "episcopae" and "presbyterae".  The reason for this is simple, as anyone knows who has any contact with Greek Christians.  The Greek priest is called "presbyter", and the "presbytera" is his wife.

Spasi, background please, since to my understanding Bishops have always been celibate.

Bishops were originally allowed to marry...more specifically, married men were allowed to be ordained bishops, so their wives would have been "episcopae."  I believe many of the apostles were married and St. Paul said in his letter to Timothy that a bishop "must be blameless, the husband of one wife."  I'm not sure when celibacy was required of bishops but it was later on.
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#9
(04-02-2014, 10:38 AM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(04-02-2014, 06:44 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(04-01-2014, 11:17 PM)spasiisochrani Wrote: This is nonsense, based on the fact that (1) the ceremonies involving the making of an abbess, canoness or nun were sometimes referred to as "ordination", (2) there were once such persons as "deaconesses", whose job was to assist at the baptism of adult women for the sake of propriety, and (3) there were women called "episcopae" and "presbyterae".  The reason for this is simple, as anyone knows who has any contact with Greek Christians.  The Greek priest is called "presbyter", and the "presbytera" is his wife.

Spasi, background please, since to my understanding Bishops have always been celibate.

Bishops were originally allowed to marry...more specifically, married men were allowed to be ordained bishops, so their wives would have been "episcopae."  I believe many of the apostles were married and St. Paul said in his letter to Timothy that a bishop "must be blameless, the husband of one wife."  I'm not sure when celibacy was required of bishops but it was later on.

My understanding is that priests and Bishops were allowed to be married, not get married (IOW, a married man might be called to ordination), but that after ordination, were expected to be sexually continent.



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#10
(04-02-2014, 11:12 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(04-02-2014, 10:38 AM)Chestertonian Wrote:
(04-02-2014, 06:44 AM)jovan66102 Wrote:
(04-01-2014, 11:17 PM)spasiisochrani Wrote: This is nonsense, based on the fact that (1) the ceremonies involving the making of an abbess, canoness or nun were sometimes referred to as "ordination", (2) there were once such persons as "deaconesses", whose job was to assist at the baptism of adult women for the sake of propriety, and (3) there were women called "episcopae" and "presbyterae".  The reason for this is simple, as anyone knows who has any contact with Greek Christians.  The Greek priest is called "presbyter", and the "presbytera" is his wife.

Spasi, background please, since to my understanding Bishops have always been celibate.

Bishops were originally allowed to marry...more specifically, married men were allowed to be ordained bishops, so their wives would have been "episcopae."  I believe many of the apostles were married and St. Paul said in his letter to Timothy that a bishop "must be blameless, the husband of one wife."  I'm not sure when celibacy was required of bishops but it was later on.

My understanding is that priests and Bishops were allowed to be married, not get married (IOW, a married man might be called to ordination), but that after ordination, were expected to be sexually continent.

Wow... so if the wife got pregnant that would have been scandalous?  No wonder they got rid of that custom.
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