Pope Francis: Heretics Can Be Saints?
#41
(04-08-2014, 05:02 AM)cassini Wrote:
(04-07-2014, 06:01 PM)triumphguy Wrote:
(04-07-2014, 11:52 AM)cassini Wrote:
(04-07-2014, 10:08 AM)triumphguy Wrote:
(04-06-2014, 11:50 AM)cassini Wrote:
(04-06-2014, 11:28 AM)triumphguy Wrote: What Copernicus wrote wasn't put in the index until 70 years after his death, and then only for 4 years.

Just for the record. Copernicus's book De revolutionibus was not put on the Index for 70 years because until then, as the preface in it stated; he was not presenting heliocentrism in this book as a truth but a mathematical hypothesis for calculation. Only when Copernicanism was reaffirmed as a heresy in 1616 did the Church feel it was necessary to make sure this book was not used to tell a truth by putting it on the index.

Copernicus's book was on the Index until 1835.

4 years.

Please triumphguy, I tried to be nice about this in my answer to you.

Here is one site I found in minutes that seems to differ from your knowledge of this subject.

http://info-poland.buffalo.edu/classroom...icus.shtml

QUOTE: The next edition of De Revolutionibus was not published until 1854, that is, not until after it had been removed from the Index in 1835. It was published in Warsaw. The next edition, the fifth, was published in Toruń, Copernicus' birth place, in 1873 to commemorate the 400 anniversary of his birth. The sixth edition was published in Munich in 1949, and the seventh again in Warsaw in 1972, this time to commemorate the 500 anniversary of his birth.
I've got nothing personal against you,. I'm just quoting the Catholic Encylopedia:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04352b.htm
" On 5 March, 1616, the work of Copernicus was forbidden by the Congregation of the Index "until corrected", and in 1620 these corrections were indicated. Nine sentences, by which the heliocentric system was represented as certain, had to be either omitted or changed. This done, the reading of the book was allowed."

There lies the problem then, the 'Catholic' encyclopedia. One will never get all the facts in anything Catholic about the Galileo case. The fact that it and three other books stayed on the index after 1741 gave rise to the greatest scandal ever in the Church, the 1820 adoption of formal heresy into the Church that in turn led to Modernism. Maybe that is why the Catholic encyclopedia left that little bit out.

OK  - University of Cambridge Department of History http://www.hps.cam.ac.uk/starry/coperbooks.html

Copernicus's book placed on index in 1616 because of the Galileo affair (not because it was heretical in and of itself). It wasn't banned, but censored. A preface was added - without Copernicus's permission by Andreas Osiander (1498-1552), a Lutheran pastor at Nuremberg, and with this preface it was allowed off the index in 1620. It was taken off the index totally in 1758.

Very similar to what the Catholic Encyclopedia said.

Free pic thrown in...
[Image: coperbooksmed.jpg]
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#42
(04-08-2014, 05:07 PM)triumphguy Wrote:
(04-08-2014, 05:02 AM)cassini Wrote:
(04-07-2014, 06:01 PM)triumphguy Wrote:
(04-07-2014, 11:52 AM)cassini Wrote:
(04-07-2014, 10:08 AM)triumphguy Wrote:
(04-06-2014, 11:50 AM)cassini Wrote:
(04-06-2014, 11:28 AM)triumphguy Wrote: What Copernicus wrote wasn't put in the index until 70 years after his death, and then only for 4 years.

Just for the record. Copernicus's book De revolutionibus was not put on the Index for 70 years because until then, as the preface in it stated; he was not presenting heliocentrism in this book as a truth but a mathematical hypothesis for calculation. Only when Copernicanism was reaffirmed as a heresy in 1616 did the Church feel it was necessary to make sure this book was not used to tell a truth by putting it on the index.

Copernicus's book was on the Index until 1835.

4 years.

Please triumphguy, I tried to be nice about this in my answer to you.

Here is one site I found in minutes that seems to differ from your knowledge of this subject.

http://info-poland.buffalo.edu/classroom...icus.shtml

QUOTE: The next edition of De Revolutionibus was not published until 1854, that is, not until after it had been removed from the Index in 1835. It was published in Warsaw. The next edition, the fifth, was published in Toruń, Copernicus' birth place, in 1873 to commemorate the 400 anniversary of his birth. The sixth edition was published in Munich in 1949, and the seventh again in Warsaw in 1972, this time to commemorate the 500 anniversary of his birth.
I've got nothing personal against you,. I'm just quoting the Catholic Encylopedia:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04352b.htm
" On 5 March, 1616, the work of Copernicus was forbidden by the Congregation of the Index "until corrected", and in 1620 these corrections were indicated. Nine sentences, by which the heliocentric system was represented as certain, had to be either omitted or changed. This done, the reading of the book was allowed."

There lies the problem then, the 'Catholic' encyclopedia. One will never get all the facts in anything Catholic about the Galileo case. The fact that it and three other books stayed on the index after 1741 gave rise to the greatest scandal ever in the Church, the 1820 adoption of formal heresy into the Church that in turn led to Modernism. Maybe that is why the Catholic encyclopedia left that little bit out.

OK  - University of Cambridge Department of History http://www.hps.cam.ac.uk/starry/coperbooks.html

Copernicus's book placed on index in 1616 because of the Galileo affair (not because it was heretical in and of itself). It wasn't banned, but censored. A preface was added - without Copernicus's permission by Andreas Osiander (1498-1552), a Lutheran pastor at Nuremberg, and with this preface it was allowed off the index in 1620. It was taken off the index totally in 1758.

Very similar to what the Catholic Encyclopedia said.

Free pic thrown in...
[Image: coperbooksmed.jpg]

That is 138 years triumphguy, not 4 years but getting closer to the truth. You would be surprised how many scholarly reports on this matter get it wrong. One reason for this is the history of the records took centuries to come out and get translated by scholars. The latest and most up to date record is provided by Maurice  A Finacchiaro in his 'Retrying Galileo.' Here is where and how the Cambridge department of History get it wrong. In 1758 all book containing the heliocentric system were taken off the index EXCEPT the five books put on the index in 1620 or so, those of Copernicus, Zuniga, Foscarini, Kepler and Galileo. that is why the Settele incident occurred in 1820 and those 5 books were not taken off until 1835.
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#43
Well it was four years with the preface.
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