Tradition is Winning
#1

From the Liturgy Guy blog:




New Priests and the Old Mass
Sep 30

A very interesting thing happened in the Archdiocese of New York last year. Despite having well over 400 parishes, Father Patric D’Arcy was the only man ordained to the priesthood in 2012. What is even more interesting, however, is that Father D’Arcy chose to offer his first Mass in the Extraordinary Form.

In June of this year, the Diocese of Charleston, South Carolina ordained to the priesthood Father Renaurd West. For his first Mass Father West chose to offer it in the Extraordinary Form.

That same month Father Jason Christian was ordained in my home Diocese of Charlotte, North Carolina. Father Christian also chose to offer his first Mass in the Extraordinary Form.

Last year there were a total of three men ordained to the priesthood in the Charlotte Diocese. One of those three, Father Jason Barone (pictured above), offered his first Mass, a Solemn High Mass , in the Extraordinary Form as well.

Finally, there is the FSSP (the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter), a community of Roman Catholic priests who exclusively offer the Latin Mass. Formed following the issuance of Blessed John Paul II’s motu proprio Ecclesia Dei in 1988, this traditional community continues to grow year after year. In 2013 five more men were ordained in North America by Bishop Conley of the Diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska. With nearly 150 young men in seminary between the United States and Europe, the FSSP can expect to continue its decade long average of nearly a dozen ordinations annually.

It’s clear that both Ecclesia Dei (1988) and Summorum Pontificum (2007) are producing much good fruit, and vocations, for the Church.

Concurrent with this is the ever increasing offering of weekly Traditional Latin Masses in the United States. Even just since 2007, when Pope Benedict issued his motu proprio, the total number of weekly masses in the Extraordinary Form have nearly doubled from roughly 225 to over 400 currently.

[Image: latin-masses-growth.jpg]

So what exactly is it about the Traditional Latin Mass, or the Extraordinary Form, that so many seminarians and young priests find appealing?

In May 2010 the excellent online site New Liturgical Movement posed this question to newly ordained Father Patrick Beneteau of the Diocese of London, Ontario. Father Beneteau’s beautiful explanation is worth quoting at length (emphasis mine):

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Quote:The entire experience of preparing to celebrate the Extraordinary form of the Roman Rite has been an enriching one. In my second year of seminary I read Cardinal Ratzinger’s, “Spirit of the Liturgy” and some of Louis Bouyer’s works on liturgy.

I realized that, in many respects, the Liturgical Movement was still in need of being actually implemented and taught. Thus began my keen interest in the traditional celebrations of the Church’s liturgy in both forms of the Roman rite.

In celebrating this past Sunday’s Solemn High Mass, I was struck with how Christ-centered the entire Mass was. Every gesture, chant, rubric and prayer offered by either myself, the deacon, or subdeacon, focused my attention constantly on the fact that this sacrifice was being offered to the Father, through Christ’s sacred action, not my own – and this was very liberating. The ad orientem direction of liturgical prayer emphasizes this fact so clearly.
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An Increase in Vocations

As Georgetown’s Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) recently confirmed, this current years total for post graduate level seminarians (3,694) represents a 10 per cent increase from 2005. While the improvement is modest, the trend is clear.

Following the release of Summorum Pontificum, priestly formation for many of these young men now includes learning how to offer the Mass in both forms of the rite. As we have seen from so many of the recently ordained, it is their liturgical and theological formation that has moved them to offer the Mass in the Extraordinary Form.

Father Jason Barone of the Diocese of Charlotte explained his decision to offer his first Mass in the Extraordinary Form. Father Barone told the Catholic News Herald that he wanted to “give God thanks for this great gift of a vocation, and to do so in the most solemn and beautiful way that I can … in a way that He has led me.”

Having spent a year of studies at Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary in Nebraska (operated by the FSSP), Father Barone was drawn to the Extraordinary Form because it places “a stronger emphasis on sacrifice … there’s something there that really appeals to the heart, to offer God’s sacrifice.”

It has been over six years since our Pope emeritus Benedict XVI, moved by the Holy Spirit, issued his motu proprio; and yet, far to many dioceses have still not made the Extraordinary Form easily available to the faithful.

As you can see by viewing Father Barone’s First Mass Highlight Video, there is much fruit being borne from the continuing reform of our sacred liturgy. As availability to the Traditional Latin Mass further increases in the coming years, we will continue to be blessed with vocations to the priesthood, such as those of Father D’Arcy, Father West, Father Christian, Father Beneteau and Father Barone.

Father Jason Barone's First Mass Highlight Video

Vox Wrote:Now, if we can do all we can to ensure that not only the Sacramental rites are preserved, but that traditional teaching is handed down -- we're gold. Keep spreading the word about Tradition, guys!



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#2
I wonder though, while we are gaining vocations.  It seems that we are starting to flatline in terms of TLM growth.  I have a feeling there will be a brief decline in the coming decade, a deflation of sorts because there of the generation gaps.  At the TLM, I usually finds four groups: the elderly (70 and over), the 30s something, their many kids, and 20 something males.  As the elderly die off, which is the financial bedrock some trad communities may find it harder to survive as 30s something have expenses with kids and everything, much more limited disposable income then the elderly also they tend not to support as much financially, the Gen Xers and Gen Yers are terrible I find when it comes to supporting institutions (one of the common complaints from many priests when they are approached from a couple is they ask what parish you belong to, and the couple answers oh we aren't register and many young catholics tend to Church hop between parishes).  Then there are the 20 something males, that are single and due to the gender imbalance in the trad world feel they are drawn to the religious life.  One of the things I fear is that because of the imbalance that many trad males decide religious vocation when they clearly don't have one (and those are the ones that cause the scandal). 

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#3
(04-12-2014, 10:50 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: I wonder though, while we are gaining vocations.  It seems that we are starting to flatline in terms of TLM growth.  I have a feeling there will be a brief decline in the coming decade, a deflation of sorts because there of the generation gaps.  At the TLM, I usually finds four groups: the elderly (70 and over), the 30s something, their many kids, and 20 something males.  As the elderly die off, which is the financial bedrock some trad communities may find it harder to survive as 30s something have expenses with kids and everything, much more limited disposable income then the elderly also they tend not to support as much financially, the Gen Xers and Gen Yers are terrible I find when it comes to supporting institutions (one of the common complaints from many priests when they are approached from a couple is they ask what parish you belong to, and the couple answers oh we aren't register and many young catholics tend to Church hop between parishes).  Then there are the 20 something males, that are single and due to the gender imbalance in the trad world feel they are drawn to the religious life.  One of the things I fear is that because of the imbalance that many trad males decide religious vocation when they clearly don't have one (and those are the ones that cause the scandal). 

All good reasons to WORK HARDER at getting people to understand and demand Tradition. I have fears, too, about the future -- not just about flatlining, but about a major drop-off if traditional families embrace the toxic trad crap; their kids will grow up and run like Hell in the opposite direction. 

So, the work we all have to do has to not stop at introducing folks to Tradition, but include not being toxic, getting others to not be that way, making parishes that are welcoming and warm, and, above all, being focused on the essence of the Gospel message and its Two Great Commandments.

As an aside, I'd guess there's a gender -- um, sex -- imbalance in the trad world because of the backlash mentality that too many trad males exhibit against gender feminism. The "ideas aren't for girls" and obsession with pants routines. We're not going to get intelligent trad women if they are pushed away by men angry at gender feminists and then displacing their anger onto all women, most especially their sisters in Christ who WANT Tradition, marriage, kids, etc.

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#4
I have been thinking a lot lately about the future and the various paths that could happen.  Toxicity is not just a problem with trads but even within the majority church.  After being in religious formation for some time, I can tell you that they are just ignorant of us as we are of them.  I spent seven months hearing about how bad the trads are, how you shouldn't be like them, and so on.  Some of it is from the few people they encounter, yet these are people who clamor about pastoral sensitivity, but it ends with Latin I guess.  I have heard far crazier things from the parishioners of NO Church then I have ever heard from the Fraternity Chapel, there is a general disorder in the Church.  But the flaws in our community are magnified out because we are the minority and with the internet it is easy to publish and distribute information that is detrimental.

Several points I would consider as means to continue the growth of traditional communities:

1. Firstly, we need a traditional bishop(s) that is in full, regular communion (such as a FSSP bishop) for ordinations as well as a leader that can unite the various trad factions (or at least licit a silent nod), it doesn't help if SSPXers attack FSSPers, there is nothing the devil wants more than division among us.  It would be nice if (and big one) traditionalists would get a structure similar to those of Eastern Catholics as that would allow us to grow without restraints.

2. Promotion of the Intellectual Life- I find that the trad societies need to venture further and work on theological thought.  And trads family should encourage their children to study science and math.  Too many I find are stuck in a pre-1962 mindset, we can't be like that, we can't just be quoting saints and canons at Mass.  It is 2014, there have been a lot of changes in society, you can't catch flies with old flypaper, you don't change the teachings but repackage them. 

3.  Community- I think trads should try to gravitate toward each other.  I find that some of us have to drive 1 or 2 hours for Mass to be ridiculous.  Parishes are territorial (and as such we should be reaching out to everyone within the territorial boundaries).  It doesn't have to be a complete insular community (like the Amish), but I think it would be neat if trads would support trads, finding work, housing, educating children together.  essentially become a quasi-ethnic group.  Another goal would be the recitation of  some of the office with clergy and laity together, further religious education, etc.

4.  Formation of traditional mendicant orders- we have monastics, we have some provinces and groups of various orders that are more trad friendly, but a fully traditional recognized true mendicant order is still out of reach, for the last 800 years mendicants have played an important role in the evangelization and theological life of the Church, and I believe at this point the mendicants are the major need for growth in the whole Church. 

5.  Drop the negativity- calling people names don't work, shaming doesn't work, mercy and forgiveness need to be at the forefront.  Reason and patience needs to be our great allies in the battle.  Christianization didn't happen it over night, it took centuries.  Remember we are at the forefront today of a new Reconquista, the constant beating of the drum will win the day over putting all over eggs in one basket.  We need to be smart, honest, and true to our convictions.

6.  Reviving Latin as a living language (some would argue it still is as Italian, Spanish, etc)- a minor point really, but could be a unifying force.  If they are able to resurrect Hebrew as a spoken language (though different), why can't we do the same?(sure some dynamics are different obviously)

7. Be real and be bold- we hold out for heroes too often, the coming of the Great Monarch, the consecration of Russia, etc. Things are dire, things are always dire, the Church is always in crisis because she has a very adversary ensuring it.  Keep what has been passed down to you, don't be caught up with some alleged quote from Padre Pio about X,Y,Z.  Don't get caught up in various conspiracy theories.  Whether they are true or not, do they really matter in the end?  You are born, live, die, and are judged according to the talents the Lord has given you, don't bury them in the ground because of fear or something else.  Eat, sleep, work, and pray and learn!   

8.  I will end here, but I think this is an important issue.  The traditional/NO gap needs to be bridged.  And while I don't think it is that big of an issue among the laity (aside from a few), it is a bigger problem among the clergy I have noticed, not just younger vs older.  It is very much a lack of understanding and communication.  The story I hear from NO priests about trads, while I don't doubt they exists and are out there, are not the ones I know and experienced and I have been through many communities in my travels.  Just like not everyone at NO is a modernist, there are some really sweet and pious men and women there, who do a lot for their parish and are generally trying to live a life faithful to the Church's teachings.
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#5
(04-13-2014, 01:09 AM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: I have been thinking a lot lately about the future and the various paths that could happen.  Toxicity is not just a problem with trads but even within the majority church.  After being in religious formation for some time, I can tell you that they are just ignorant of us as we are of them.  I spent seven months hearing about how bad the trads are, how you shouldn't be like them, and so on.  Some of it is from the few people they encounter, yet these are people who clamor about pastoral sensitivity, but it ends with Latin I guess.  I have heard far crazier things from the parishioners of NO Church then I have ever heard from the Fraternity Chapel, there is a general disorder in the Church.  But the flaws in our community are magnified out because we are the minority and with the internet it is easy to publish and distribute information that is detrimental.

Several points I would consider as means to continue the growth of traditional communities:

1. Firstly, we need a traditional bishop(s) that is in full, regular communion (such as a FSSP bishop) for ordinations as well as a leader that can unite the various trad factions (or at least licit a silent nod), it doesn't help if SSPXers attack FSSPers, there is nothing the devil wants more than division among us.  It would be nice if (and big one) traditionalists would get a structure similar to those of Eastern Catholics as that would allow us to grow without restraints.

That would be sooooooooo nice.

Quote: 2. Promotion of the Intellectual Life- I find that the trad societies need to venture further and work on theological thought.  And trads family should encourage their children to study science and math.  Too many I find are stuck in a pre-1962 mindset, we can't be like that, we can't just be quoting saints and canons at Mass.  It is 2014, there have been a lot of changes in society, you can't catch flies with old flypaper, you don't change the teachings but repackage them. 

I agree and disagree:  I think all trad families should encourage their kids, if the kids are capable, to have a basic, decent education that allows them to defend the Faith, etc. -- and that those kids with the gifts for and vocations to such things should be encouraged to study science and math. I'm a big believer in the idea that not everyone is called to a college education -- but I'd love for everyone who has the gifts and the calling for work that requires college to be able to do that. It's way past time for Christians -- Catholics in particluar -- to reclaim the Sciences!

Quote: 3.  Community- I think trads should try to gravitate toward each other.  I find that some of us have to drive 1 or 2 hours for Mass to be ridiculous.  Parishes are territorial (and as such we should be reaching out to everyone within the territorial boundaries).  It doesn't have to be a complete insular community (like the Amish), but I think it would be neat if trads would support trads, finding work, housing, educating children together.  essentially become a quasi-ethnic group.  Another goal would be the recitation of  some of the office with clergy and laity together, further religious education, etc.

That is a dream of mine right there. It was Tim's big dream, too (how I miss that guy!). It's absolutely horrible how scattered we are --- how scattered we are even in our own States and counties or shires or whatever, depending on where we live. To be able to bring back the old Catholic neighbhorhoods, all centered around trad parishes, would be so beautiful.

Quote: 4.  Formation of traditional mendicant orders- we have monastics, we have some provinces and groups of various orders that are more trad friendly, but a fully traditional recognized true mendicant order is still out of reach, for the last 800 years mendicants have played an important role in the evangelization and theological life of the Church, and I believe at this point the mendicants are the major need for growth in the whole Church. 

5.  Drop the negativity- calling people names don't work, shaming doesn't work, mercy and forgiveness need to be at the forefront.  Reason and patience needs to be our great allies in the battle.  Christianization didn't happen it over night, it took centuries.  Remember we are at the forefront today of a new Reconquista, the constant beating of the drum will win the day over putting all over eggs in one basket.  We need to be smart, honest, and true to our convictions.

IOW, live the Gospel. Yes! I do maintain, though, that the use of the phrase "toxic trad" (or something like it) is important -- not for the sake of "name-calling" or harming anyone, but in order to discuss a real and true problem in the trad world, something that needs to be fixed.

Quote: 6.  Reviving Latin as a living language (some would argue it still is as Italian, Spanish, etc)- a minor point really, but could be a unifying force.  If they are able to resurrect Hebrew as a spoken language (though different), why can't we do the same?(sure some dynamics are different obviously)

Hmm... Not sure about this one. Part of its charm and efficacy is that it's a "dead language" that doesn't change every other week...

Quote: 7. Be real and be bold- we hold out for heroes too often, the coming of the Great Monarch, the consecration of Russia, etc. Things are dire, things are always dire, the Church is always in crisis because she has a very adversary ensuring it.  Keep what has been passed down to you, don't be caught up with some alleged quote from Padre Pio about X,Y,Z.  Don't get caught up in various conspiracy theories.  Whether they are true or not, do they really matter in the end?  You are born, live, die, and are judged according to the talents the Lord has given you, don't bury them in the ground because of fear or something else.  Eat, sleep, work, and pray and learn!     

I totally believe that keeping to the Faith is the most important thing, the sine qua non of it all -- but think the "be bold" part also should go to changing things that are wrong with our world.

Quote: 8.  I will end here, but I think this is an important issue.  The traditional/NO gap needs to be bridged.  And while I don't think it is that big of an issue among the laity (aside from a few), it is a bigger problem among the clergy I have noticed, not just younger vs older.  It is very much a lack of understanding and communication.  The story I hear from NO priests about trads, while I don't doubt they exists and are out there, are not the ones I know and experienced and I have been through many communities in my travels.  Just like not everyone at NO is a modernist, there are some really sweet and pious men and women there, who do a lot for their parish and are generally trying to live a life faithful to the Church's teachings.

Your saying that there are many sweet and pious men and women in the NO world is a FACT. They're wrong about this aspect of the Faith, they're missing out big time, but many are way more likely to get into Heaven than many trads. As I say on the "Conversion of the Heart" page of the FE site, it isn't some intellectual conclusion that will save you (even if the intellectual conclusion in question is absolutely RIGHT). It's grace and our cooperating with it through repentance and Love.

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#6
" I think all trad families should encourage their kids, if the kids are capable, to have a basic, decent education that allows them to defend the Faith, etc. -- and that those kids with the gifts for and vocations to such things should be encouraged to study science and math. I'm a big believer in the idea that not everyone is called to a college education -- but I'd love for everyone who has the gifts and the calling for work that requires college to be able to do that"

I agree that college isn't for everyone, and it is absurd to push for it.  But engineering and technical skills are whats in demand, training children to be 19th century file clerks isn't helpful, it's dangerous.  I have met other trads who are engineers and scientists like myself, mostly those single 20ish guys.  I think this is something the Church, if they really care about improving people's lives, should be developing trade and technical schools, not 4 year colleges that saddle students with debt and leaves them no marketable skills or worst being lackeys to the socialists and communists demanding more money for xyz.  The history of the US Church has been one of parallelism, the bishops demanded every parish have a parish school to prevent kids from becoming Protestants, they deny us insurance so we started our insurance programs, etc.  And they did it without a dime from the Federal government. It is something that works here for us and I believe it needs to be brought back to a degree.

"Your saying that there are many sweet and pious men and women in the NO world is a FACT. They're wrong about this aspect of the Faith, they're missing out big time, but many are way more likely to get into Heaven than many trads."

Absolutely, I do find in NO, what I call "stealth trads."  usually older folks who are linked by birth to their parish, who do the traditional devotions, are active in parish education, may have an interest in the old ways, but are not interested in pushing for it because of the priest, the council of elders, etc.  As important are the intellectual is, the heart is what matters in the end.
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#7
Much excited about the news.

I attended the Palm Sunday Tridentine Latin mass, and we have a French diocesan seminarian who serves at the mass every week. How nice!
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#8
All good news Vox, yet right across the state line from you, in York County, Diocese of Charleston, we are given the N.O. in its most modern form, less the dancing and clowns, from the Oratorians. Fine Priests, but nary a traditionalist amongst them. Ask about the Usus Antiquior and you get a verbal pat on the head and an explanation on how no one is interested in looking backwards, and no one seems interested in the Latin anymore. To the best of my knowledge, there are three diocesan E.F. masses offered in the entire state, and the only Parish with a regular E.F. is Prince of Peace in Taylors, which is a jewel and growing strong. A new SSPX mission is now in Columbia, Christ the King Mission,  and another E.F. Parish near Charleston not affiliated with the SSPX, but that is it.
I do not intend to rain on your parade, but merely state facts. while Tradition will win, many of us must travel long distances to cleanse ourselves of the N.O. mess we are locked in. I know St. Ann in Charlotte has Diocesan approved E.F., and the SSPX has a chapel in Mt. Holly, St. Anthony of Padua. Both of which are a bit of a drive for me on a semi fixed income. But we do what we must.

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#9
(04-12-2014, 09:28 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:     In celebrating this past Sunday’s Solemn High Mass, I was struck with how Christ-centered the entire Mass was. Every gesture, chant, rubric and prayer offered by either myself, the deacon, or subdeacon, focused my attention constantly on the fact that this sacrifice was being offered to the Father, through Christ’s sacred action, not my own – and this was very liberating. The ad orientem direction of liturgical prayer emphasizes this fact so clearly.

It's interesting, I was just thinking about this the other day while selecting music for NO Mass. So many of the songs are us-orientated. I wanted material that emphasised Christ and his kingship for today, but was meeting resistance from the "committee" who wanted other stuff (yes, it has the word Hosanna in it, no, that still doesn't automatically make it appropriate).

(04-12-2014, 10:50 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: Then there are the 20 something males, that are single and due to the gender imbalance in the trad world feel they are drawn to the religious life. 

That is such an interesting point, because the gender imbalance is the exact OPPOSITE in NO-land. I know too many 20 or 30 something women who either remain single or marry non-Catholics due a lack of Catholic men. You see it too, when looking at families with young children in church - more often than not, it's mom and the kids only without dad. That's how I grew up too - my dad is not Catholic. And yet having a dad that practices the faith is one of the most strongly influencing factors on whether or not kids will follow the faith when they grow up!

(04-13-2014, 07:56 AM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote: Absolutely, I do find in NO, what I call "stealth trads."  usually older folks who are linked by birth to their parish, who do the traditional devotions, are active in parish education, may have an interest in the old ways, but are not interested in pushing for it because of the priest, the council of elders, etc.  As important are the intellectual is, the heart is what matters in the end.

LOL, I'm not that old (I'm 36), but I'm what you call a "stealth trad" too, or at least I'm trying to be. I think you're right on the money that it's largely due to not wanting to "rock the boat". There's a lot of politics in parishes, and no one wants to be on the wrong side of the majority if they can help it.
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#10
(04-13-2014, 02:14 PM)Dmorgan Wrote: All good news Vox, yet right across the state line from you, in York County, Diocese of Charleston, we are given the N.O. in its most modern form, less the dancing and clowns, from the Oratorians. Fine Priests, but nary a traditionalist amongst them. Ask about the Usus Antiquior and you get a verbal pat on the head and an explanation on how no one is interested in looking backwards, and no one seems interested in the Latin anymore. To the best of my knowledge, there are three diocesan E.F. masses offered in the entire state, and the only Parish with a regular E.F. is Prince of Peace in Taylors, which is a jewel and growing strong. A new SSPX mission is now in Columbia, Christ the King Mission,  and another E.F. Parish near Charleston not affiliated with the SSPX, but that is it.
I do not intend to rain on your parade, but merely state facts. while Tradition will win, many of us must travel long distances to cleanse ourselves of the N.O. mess we are locked in. I know St. Ann in Charlotte has Diocesan approved E.F., and the SSPX has a chapel in Mt. Holly, St. Anthony of Padua. Both of which are a bit of a drive for me on a semi fixed income. But we do what we must.


[Image: sad.gif]  I know, Dm.. I know that LOTS of folks have it really, REALLY rough and that sooooo many good trads make all sorts of sacrifices to get to TLMs -- driving hours sometimes. It's just sad.  But it just shows me that we've got a LOT more WORK to do. I know it sucks to hear that, but -- well, we do. We've got to get more TLMs established in parishes (see http://www.fisheaters.com/tlmsetup.html ) --- and make sure that traditional TEACHINGS are also kept intact ( see http://www.fisheaters.com/traditionalcatholicism.html ). We've got to talk to people, evangelize, convince "NOers" (for lack of a better term) to at least look into Tradition and TRY to understand our arguments, get Masses set up and ask for ALL the trad Sacramental rites in as many places as possible, blog about all this, post comments in com boxes about all this -- just generally use the internet to spread Tradition (see http://www.fisheaters.com/evangelize.html ). We've got to work harder and get creative. Use art. Use comics. Use Youtube. Make up fliers and leave them in NO parishes. Take over RCIA classes. Do street evangelizing like the Prots do (hey, it works for them!). Do random acts of kindness for folks and let them know it's in the Holy Name of Jesus -- while sliding them a card with a TLM parish address on it. Whatevs!

It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings, and I haven't sung a note. (well, OK, I sing all the time around the house, but the line stands for our purposes LOL)

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