Are There Souls in Hell Right Now?
#11
By the way thanks for posting this article :)

For those who might not know the original article is actually from Tim Staples in Catholic Answers. I know the bad reputation Catholic Answers has gotten in here for various reasons. However I do give merit to Tim Staples for writing this article.
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#12
(04-14-2014, 06:49 PM)salus Wrote: That this needs to be discussed shows what a sad state the faith is in, even among some priests and bishops

Absolutely. Hell and the idea of some being saved while others won't be is all over Scripture. Why would Hell exist if it has no purpose?

I think, though, that a lot more people are saved than some Catholics think, but the idea of Hell not existing, that everyone is saved, sort of makes a mockery of the existence of the Church Herself.

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#13
The way I see the "argument," is that if a person passes from this life to the next, if that person is not in heaven or in a state of purgation (in purgatory),  there is only one other place they can be to that which has been revealed to us and that place is hell.  I do not know who is or could be and that is far above my pay grade and I do not want to be promoted to that place where I will have that knowledge.  I am but a little person who would like very much for the mercy of Jesus to allow me to spend as many thousands of years (our way of thinking) in purgatory or as long as the Lord would have me there to remove every stain of sin and the temporal punishment for those sins.
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#14
These are the sorts of arguments that get made when a religion becomes literary.

Are there any souls in Hell? Ask an exorcist!
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#15
I worry about my mother, sister and oldest daughter.  All of them say that if the sort of people who are religious are the ones in heaven, then they want to be in hell because at least the people there will know how to have a good time.  I pray for them daily to come back to their faith.  Anytime I try to speak to them about this they get all nasty and tell me that religion is made up to control weak minded people.  Their mindset seems to be what alot of folks think today.  I worry a great deal for my family members, especially my mom as she is will be 72 this birthday.  :'((  I have no clue how to get through to them other than praying for their souls.
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#16
(04-15-2014, 11:13 AM)Philomena01 Wrote: I worry about my mother, sister and oldest daughter.  All of them say that if the sort of people who are religious are the ones in heaven, then they want to be in hell because at least the people there will know how to have a good time.  I pray for them daily to come back to their faith.  Anytime I try to speak to them about this they get all nasty and tell me that religion is made up to control weak minded people.  Their mindset seems to be what alot of folks think today.  I worry a great deal for my family members, especially my mom as she is will be 72 this birthday.   :'((  I have no clue how to get through to them other than praying for their souls.





put a green scapular somewhere near their person, maybe under the mattress?
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#17
(04-14-2014, 12:32 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: This is a good take on it, as it shows the limits of Barrons or von Balthasars arguments (at least as I understand them for secondary sources).  I think their analysis is perfectly sound up until the point this article points out, where it becomes much more debateable--the analysis of whether Jesus' words concerning the Final Judgment describe a possible result of the Judgment or foretell the actual results of the Final Judgment that will definitely take place.

Since Christ died for all men and God desires that all men be saved, every individual human person has the potential to be saved.  Therefore, antecedently, it is possible for all men to be saved.  There's nothing wrong with this idea (St. Alphonsus Liguori, for example, devotes a volume to it in his work on Prayer as the means of salvation)

Consequently, however, a particular person may not reach that potential. Only at the Final Judgment will it be revealed who was saved (other than canonized Saints) and who was damned.  So therefore, without evidence of the consequent result, from the human perspective, the possibility remains for each person that they may have been saved (if they have died) or may be saved (if they are alive or yet to be born). If we had no more info on the Final Judgment, then there wouldn't be much argument against Barron and von Balthasar.

But Jesus did reveal some details about the General Judgment and, IMO, they do seem to foretell actual results, rather than potential results, as this article notes.






Christ did not die for all men, but for many men. He did not die for those who are damned.
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#18
(04-15-2014, 01:27 PM)In nomine Patris Wrote: Christ did not die for all men, but for many men. He did not die for those who are damned.

Christ did not just die for the elect, but for all men.  This, of course, does not necessitate that all men inevitably benefit from it, however.  But it is correct to say Christ died for all men according to the Church:

CCC 605: The Church, following the apostles, teaches that Christ died for all men without exception: "There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer."412

The quote in this paragraph is from the Council of Quiercy, whose decrees were approved by Leo IV (see Denzinger 319, under the old more common numbering).

Of course, Scripture says it even more plainly:

2 Cor. 5: [14] For the charity of Christ presseth us: judging this, that if one died for all, then all were dead. [15] And Christ died for all; that they also who live, may not now live to themselves, but unto him who died for them, and rose again.

The Haydock commentary backs the interpretation that Christ did not die only for the elect:

Ver. 15. And Christ died for all, (not only for the predestinate or the elect)

Again, as I said in my post, Christ died for all, so antecedently, all have the possibility of being saved.  But this does not necessarily mean that all will partake of the fruits of that death.

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#19
those who leave this life with out Jesus Christ as there lord  will go to Hell
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#20
There's at least one soul in hell:  Judas.  Our Lord Himself said that it would have been better for him if he had never been born.  Now, if he ever gets to heaven, then it would be better for him to have been born than not to have been born.  Therefore, he will never get to heaven.  Therefore, he is not now in heaven, nor is he in purgatory, since if he were in purgatory, he would eventually get to heaven.  Since he's dead, and therefore can no longer live on earth, that only leaves hell.  Q.E.D.

But one can say much more.  By far the common opinion among Catholic theologians is that the greater number of Catholics will be damned.  A fortiori the greater number of non-Catholics will be damned.  And the number of non-Catholics, throughout all of history, has far outweighed the number of Catholics.  Therefore not only are there many souls in hell, but it is the common opinion that the greater part of mankind will be damned.

Of course, God wants to save them all, but human cooperation just isn't what it should be.
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