Saints of Vatican 2
#1
Can’t remember how many times I heard the term “Vatican 2″ during coverage today. The Saints of Vatican 2. About how freaking great it was. The council to END all freaking councils. How I will remember this occasion. Now the Vatican 2 purists have their Saints. It will be complete when Paul VI is made a Saint. Already discussions going on about that. Now traditional Catholics will really be second class citizens!. Maybe we should petition to have the 1962 Missal be referred to as the Missal of Saint John XXIII. At least we can say our Missal was brought about thanks to a Saint. :(( Maybe I should wallpaper my house with Vatican 2 worded wallpaper.  To keep reminding myself how freaking awesome Vatican 2 was. The COUNCIL TO END ALL COUNCILS!!
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#2
The good news is the younger generations aren't as V2-obsessed as the baby bummers and Gen-X

Very soon after another generation passes V2 will be just a footnote. We dare to hope.
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#3
(04-27-2014, 08:03 PM)austenbosten Wrote: Gen-X

hey now.
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#4
(04-27-2014, 08:03 PM)austenbosten Wrote: The good news is the younger generations aren't as V2-obsessed as the baby bummers and Gen-X

Very soon after another generation passes V2 will be just a footnote. We dare to hope.

I really hope you didn't mean "baby bummers."

V2 isn't going anywhere - but it sounds like a lot of "catholics" are (out of the Church, into protestant-land).
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#5
(04-27-2014, 08:56 PM)loggats Wrote:
(04-27-2014, 08:03 PM)austenbosten Wrote: The good news is the younger generations aren't as V2-obsessed as the baby bummers and Gen-X

Very soon after another generation passes V2 will be just a footnote. We dare to hope.

I really hope you didn't mean "baby bummers."

V2 isn't going anywhere - but it sounds like a lot of "catholics" are (out of the Church, into protestant-land).

I never said V2 was going away...I'm just saying we're not going to be pounded to death about how wonderful the Council was, despite all the blatant, obvious, concrete evidence pointing to the opposite.

And yes I meant Baby Bummers as a joke....Sorry if any Boomers take offense.
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#6
(04-27-2014, 08:56 PM)loggats Wrote:
(04-27-2014, 08:03 PM)austenbosten Wrote: The good news is the younger generations aren't as V2-obsessed as the baby bummers and Gen-X

Very soon after another generation passes V2 will be just a footnote. We dare to hope.

I really hope you didn't mean "baby bummers."

V2 isn't going anywhere - but it sounds like a lot of "catholics" are (out of the Church, into protestant-land).

And a child named Francis leads them.
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#7
Truly I too am sick of hearing about Vatican II, although I hope that as we get further and further away from that dreaded Council more folks will look objectively at what the Council actually said and what was never intended by the Council and restore sanity. For instance, the Mass of Paul VI,Communion in the hand, the revised and butchered breviary and lectionary, the butchers block table "altar" and versus populum liturgy were not specifically called for by the Council even though many faddish experts had been dreaming of these things for decades and used the Council and the weakness, blindness (or let's be honest) deliberate willfulness of Paul VI (who really was perhaps THE worst Pope in the last several hundred years if not ever) to push their agenda. They have won for over half a century with their debased and truncated and butchered and ambiguous new rites , practices and policies but they cannot win forever. Perhaps in some ways this John XXIII canonization will lead people to really read his journal and his orthodox statements and not just his opening address to Vatican II and his bizarre secular utopian fantasy Pacem in Terris and see that what he intended for Vatican II was far different than what Paul VI allowed. The documents of Vatican II are in themselves problematic but perhaps after we get a few decades down the road there will be a Pope and bishops who have a more realistic assessment of what John XXIII intended and who will be willing to start fresh, not with Paul VI's hack job but with things as they were before and during the Council.
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#8
I am lucky to live in a country where VII spirit is not applied. But there is a trend to practice it.

Yesterday, the canonization day, the priests in our capital city require all the "obsolete liturgy" to be cleansed. These young priests are those who were ordained in 1990s to 2000s. After they received VII education at home and abroad, they unfortunately found many young people are attached to TLMs and traditional spirituality. And they are constantly being critizied by young and old traditional Catholics on internet blogs due to liturgical abuses in their mass. That's why they are ashamed and furious.

Those modernists do have different mentality from us. That's VII.

They would just ignore what's happening around. No more vocations after NO masses are applied here in 1990s, seminaries being shut down, fewer people going to the church, poor faith of Catholic faithful,  heretical ideas everywhere...

They just care about whether their "job" can be kept. I think this applies to the modernists within Vatican as well.



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#9
(04-28-2014, 02:10 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: (or let's be honest) deliberate willfulness of Paul VI (who really was perhaps THE worst Pope in the last several hundred years if not ever)

Be careful what you say, formerbuddhist! http://www.religionnews.com/2014/04/25/r...a-miracle/

Who knows when we'll have another mascot of the Council? I really think this is just getting ridiculous. When Benedict XVI passes away, they'll canonize him with Paul VI! Since the former restored traditional vestments, however, he may only reach "Blessed" status.  :LOL:

Quote:They have won for over half a century with their debased and truncated and butchered and ambiguous new rites , practices and policies but they cannot win forever. Perhaps in some ways this John XXIII canonization will lead people to really read his journal and his orthodox statements and not just his opening address to Vatican II and his bizarre secular utopian fantasy Pacem in Terris and see that what he intended for Vatican II was far different than what Paul VI allowed. The documents of Vatican II are in themselves problematic but perhaps after we get a few decades down the road there will be a Pope and bishops who have a more realistic assessment of what John XXIII intended and who will be willing to start fresh, not with Paul VI's hack job but with things as they were before and during the Council.

"Hack job" is a good description.

There's always hope, though. Christ the Master is not mastered by His slaves.
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#10
(04-28-2014, 02:10 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: Truly I too am sick of hearing about Vatican II, although I hope that as we get further and further away from that dreaded Council more folks will look objectively at what the Council actually said and what was never intended by the Council and restore sanity. For instance, the Mass of Paul VI,Communion in the hand, the revised and butchered breviary and lectionary, the butchers block table "altar" and versus populum liturgy were not specifically called for by the Council even though many faddish experts had been dreaming of these things for decades and used the Council and the weakness, blindness (or let's be honest) deliberate willfulness of Paul VI (who really was perhaps THE worst Pope in the last several hundred years if not ever) to push their agenda. They have won for over half a century with their debased and truncated and butchered and ambiguous new rites , practices and policies but they cannot win forever. Perhaps in some ways this John XXIII canonization will lead people to really read his journal and his orthodox statements and not just his opening address to Vatican II and his bizarre secular utopian fantasy Pacem in Terris and see that what he intended for Vatican II was far different than what Paul VI allowed. The documents of Vatican II are in themselves problematic but perhaps after we get a few decades down the road there will be a Pope and bishops who have a more realistic assessment of what John XXIII intended and who will be willing to start fresh, not with Paul VI's hack job but with things as they were before and during the Council.

By their fruits we shall know them...

St John XXIII blatantly ignored a directive from Our Lady to disclose the Third Secret of Fatima in 1960! What you describe above is what happens when one ignores a directive from heaven.
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