Saints of Vatican 2
#11
Having read most of the documents of Vatican II, I take issue with the way the name and "spirit" of the council have been used to justify all sorts of gravely abusive liturgical and theological ends. If people (esp. priests) would actually read the documents we'd have a lot more Latin, a lot more chant, and my parish church would have a functioning organ.

People bandy about the term "vat ii" to mean all this "inclusiveness" felt-banner stuff, but I think it's time for orthodox Catholics to take back that term and teach people the great lessons and intention of the actual council itself. That I think was the goal and mission of both JPII and Benedict XVI -- a mission in which they were at least partially successful.

I think especially people today are more aware of the Church's teaching on sexuality and contraception because of JPII's Theology of the Body. Unfortunately Benedict didn't have the same rapport and MSM appeal (esp. not compared to Francis), and therefore Benedict has, and had, been largely ignored among even the LifeTeen sort of active Catholic youth (who unfortunately still think guitars and drums have a place in the Latin Rite liturgy.)


(context: I'm a traditional-leaning N.O. Catholic in my late-twenties. Married, three kids, rat-race bay area tech job. I'm young enough to have not been very aware of the global Church during the JPII pontificate, and so all this is a little ancient-history to me.)
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#12
(04-27-2014, 08:03 PM)austenbosten Wrote: The good news is the younger generations aren't as V2-obsessed as the baby bummers and Gen-X

Very soon after another generation passes V2 will be just a footnote. We dare to hope.

Hey, that's baby boomer, thank you very much!  Smart alec kid..... :fish:
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#13
(04-27-2014, 08:56 PM)loggats Wrote: V2 isn't going anywhere - but it sounds like a lot of "catholics" are (out of the Church, into protestant-land).

The previous 22 Councils are not going anywhere either  :grin:

One doesn't have to go too far to enter protestant land, if that's what you've a mind to do, most N.O. churches are already there.
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#14
(04-29-2014, 01:00 AM)Gidge Wrote:
(04-27-2014, 08:56 PM)loggats Wrote: V2 isn't going anywhere - but it sounds like a lot of "catholics" are (out of the Church, into protestant-land).

The previous 22 Councils are not going anywhere either  :grin:

One doesn't have to go too far to enter protestant land, if that's what you've a mind to do, most N.O. churches are already there.

Really?  In the entire Western, Latin Rite world, how many dioceses are already Protestant?  Have you been to all or most of them?  You must be quite an active traveler then...
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#15
(04-29-2014, 07:10 AM)lumine Wrote:
(04-29-2014, 01:00 AM)Gidge Wrote:
(04-27-2014, 08:56 PM)loggats Wrote: V2 isn't going anywhere - but it sounds like a lot of "catholics" are (out of the Church, into protestant-land).

The previous 22 Councils are not going anywhere either  :grin:

One doesn't have to go too far to enter protestant land, if that's what you've a mind to do, most N.O. churches are already there.

Really?  In the entire Western, Latin Rite world, how many dioceses are already Protestant?  Have you been to all or most of them?  You must be quite an active traveler then...

This is all anecdotal, made worse by the ubiquity of internet scandal.
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#16
(04-28-2014, 07:51 PM)lumine Wrote:
(04-27-2014, 08:03 PM)austenbosten Wrote: The good news is the younger generations aren't as V2-obsessed as the baby bummers and Gen-X

Very soon after another generation passes V2 will be just a footnote. We dare to hope.

Hey, that's baby boomer, thank you very much!  Smart alec kid..... :fish:

Testy testy...It's just a joke! :p
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#17
(04-29-2014, 07:10 AM)lumine Wrote:
(04-29-2014, 01:00 AM)Gidge Wrote:
(04-27-2014, 08:56 PM)loggats Wrote: V2 isn't going anywhere - but it sounds like a lot of "catholics" are (out of the Church, into protestant-land).

The previous 22 Councils are not going anywhere either  :grin:

One doesn't have to go too far to enter protestant land, if that's what you've a mind to do, most N.O. churches are already there.

Really?  In the entire Western, Latin Rite world, how many dioceses are already Protestant?  Have you been to all or most of them?  You must be quite an active traveler then...

Oh no, my world is quite small (New England, USA) -- and sadly *most* -- not all--  of the Nouvus Ordo churches I've attended have all the trappings and many of the abuses spoken of time and again on this forum.  The comment was figurative, but I think you knew this. Are the Nouvus Ordo churches bastions of orthodoxy in your part of the world ?

* Nice picture of Satchmo on muggles, BTW.

(04-27-2014, 08:56 PM)loggats Wrote: This is all anecdotal, made worse by the ubiquity of internet scandal.

No, actually, the Nouvus Ordo churches around here are pretty heterodox and protestant-like (especially the music).
What is this scandal you speak of, the fact that you and I spend our precious time trading jibes with each other here instead of building up the Church ? If this is what you mean, I agree.
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