Pope Tweets: Inequality is the Root of Social Evil
#11
(05-09-2014, 05:42 PM)austenbosten Wrote: I'm not disturbed by Pope Francis's tweets, we all know his economic leanings; what I'm most disturbed by is the continued fawning and defense over every thing His Holiness does by these Neo-Caths. He's the Pope, not God...he is more than capable of making mistakes....a lot of mistakes and instead of defending him we should correct him or at least request that he expound further.

The constant knee-jerk defense among some of these Catholics is just becoming embarrassing.

How could we make a drinking game out of it?  How could we make a Pope Francis drinking game?

Reply
#12
(05-09-2014, 05:42 PM)austenbosten Wrote: I'm not disturbed by Pope Francis's tweets, we all know his economic leanings; what I'm most disturbed by is the continued fawning and defense over every thing His Holiness does by these Neo-Caths. He's the Pope, not God...he is more than capable of making mistakes....a lot of mistakes and instead of defending him we should correct him or at least request that he expound further.

The constant knee-jerk defense among some of these Catholics is just becoming embarrassing.

I think a lot of Catholics agree with him because they have the attitude that worship of the poor admonishes them from the rest of Christianity. I think it stems from the fact that at face value it seems like the least controversial apparently Christian thing to do that gets you praise of the world at large and God. When it comes to a really divisive issue however they retreat into the shadows. The said issue then gets dismissed as "not important" or a dropping of the "judge and ye be not judged" line.
Reply
#13
(05-09-2014, 05:42 PM)austenbosten Wrote: I'm not disturbed by Pope Francis's tweets, we all know his economic leanings; what I'm most disturbed by is the continued fawning and defense over every thing His Holiness does by these Neo-Caths. He's the Pope, not God...he is more than capable of making mistakes....a lot of mistakes and instead of defending him we should correct him or at least request that he expound further.

The constant knee-jerk defense among some of these Catholics is just becoming embarrassing.
As is the knee jerk reactions against him.

You only have to read Aquinas to know that inequality can demand justice.

Reply
#14
(05-09-2014, 06:31 PM)triumphguy Wrote:
(05-09-2014, 05:42 PM)austenbosten Wrote: I'm not disturbed by Pope Francis's tweets, we all know his economic leanings; what I'm most disturbed by is the continued fawning and defense over every thing His Holiness does by these Neo-Caths. He's the Pope, not God...he is more than capable of making mistakes....a lot of mistakes and instead of defending him we should correct him or at least request that he expound further.

The constant knee-jerk defense among some of these Catholics is just becoming embarrassing.
As is the knee jerk reactions against him.

You only have to read Aquinas to know that inequality can demand justice.

Yes I agree, but many knee-jerk reactions against Holy Father are from non-Catholics or people whom many wouldn't consider Catholic because of their anti-Catholic position. Regarding Inequality, yes inequality demands justice, but let's be honest calling inequality, the root of all social evil is stretching it a bit and is in danger of promoting materialism which was condemned in Rerum Novarum.
Reply
#15
(05-09-2014, 06:31 PM)triumphguy Wrote:
(05-09-2014, 05:42 PM)austenbosten Wrote: I'm not disturbed by Pope Francis's tweets, we all know his economic leanings; what I'm most disturbed by is the continued fawning and defense over every thing His Holiness does by these Neo-Caths. He's the Pope, not God...he is more than capable of making mistakes....a lot of mistakes and instead of defending him we should correct him or at least request that he expound further.

The constant knee-jerk defense among some of these Catholics is just becoming embarrassing.
As is the knee jerk reactions against him.

You only have to read Aquinas to know that inequality can demand justice.

"Inequality" when it comes to being a "respecter of persons" in the Biblical sense, and in terms of fairness and equality before the law, not in terms that entail the idea that everyone is owed the same amount of property or honor, etc., or that everyone has equal gifts and equal virtue. It's not knee-jerk -- or, if it is, then Moses Lawler of the great neo-conservative catholiccuture.org -- the arbiter of all that is good and true and worthwhile to read in the Catholic world -- was also knee-jerking when he said the Pope didn't say that at all -- and we can be sure of it!(in part because he doesn't speak English, which isn't relevant in a Latin tweet).


Reply
#16


P.S. From Quod Apostolici Muneris, by Pope Leo XIII, December 28, 1878:


At the very beginning of Our pontificate, as the nature of Our apostolic office demanded, we hastened to point out in an encyclical letter addressed to you, venerable brethren, the deadly plague that is creeping into the very fibers of human society and leading it on to the verge of destruction; at the same time...

...You understand, venerable brethren, that We speak of that sect of men who, under various and almost barbarous names, are called socialists, communists, or nihilists, and who, spread over all the world, and bound together by the closest ties in a wicked confederacy, no longer seek the shelter of secret meetings, but, openly and boldly marching forth in the light of day, strive to bring to a head what they have long been planning -- the overthrow of all civil society whatsoever.

Surely these are they who, as the sacred Scriptures testify, "Defile the flesh, despise dominion and blaspheme majesty."[2] They leave nothing untouched or whole which by both human and divine laws has been wisely decreed for the health and beauty of life. They refuse obedience to the higher powers, to whom, according to the admonition of the Apostle, every soul ought to be subject, and who derive the right of governing from God; and they proclaim the absolute equality of all men in rights and duties. They debase the natural union of man and woman, which is held sacred even among barbarous peoples; and its bond, by which the family is chiefly held together, they weaken, or even deliver up to lust. Lured, in fine, by the greed of present goods, which is "the root of all evils which some coveting have erred from the faith,"[3] they assail the right of property sanctioned by natural law; and by a scheme of horrible wickedness, while they seem desirous of caring for the needs and satisfying the desires of all men, they strive to seize and hold in common whatever has been acquired either by title of lawful inheritance, or by labor of brain and hands, or by thrift in one's mode of life....

...5. For, indeed, although the socialists, stealing the very Gospel itself with a view to deceive more easily the unwary, have been accustomed to distort it so as to suit their own purposes, nevertheless so great is the difference between their depraved teachings and the most pure doctrine of Christ that none greater could exist: "for what participation hath justice with injustice or what fellowship hath light with darkness?"[7] Their habit, as we have intimated, is always to maintain that nature has made all men equal, and that, therefore, neither honor nor respect is due to majesty, nor obedience to laws, unless, perhaps, to those sanctioned by their own good pleasure. But, on the contrary, in accordance with the teachings of the Gospel, the equality of men consists in this: that all, having inherited the same nature, are called to the same most high dignity of the sons of God, and that, as one and the same end is set before all, each one is to be judged by the same law and will receive punishment or reward according to his deserts. The inequality of rights and of power proceeds from the very Author of nature, "from whom all paternity in heaven and earth is named."[8] But the minds of princes and their subjects are, according to Catholic doctrine and precepts, bound up one with the other in such a manner, by mutual duties and rights, that the thirst for power is restrained and the rational ground of obedience made easy, firm, and noble....

... 9. But Catholic wisdom, sustained by the precepts of natural and divine law, provides with especial care for public and private tranquillity in its doctrines and teachings regarding the duty of government and the distribution of the goods which are necessary for life and use. For, while the socialists would destroy the "right" of property, alleging it to be a human invention altogether opposed to the inborn equality of man, and, claiming a community of goods, argue that poverty should not be peaceably endured, and that the property and privileges of the rich may be rightly invaded, the Church, with much greater wisdom and good sense, recognizes the inequality among men, who are born with different powers of body and mind, inequality in actual possession, also, and holds that the right of property and of ownership, which springs from nature itself, must not be touched and stands inviolate.

Reply
#17
(05-09-2014, 06:43 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(05-09-2014, 06:31 PM)triumphguy Wrote:
(05-09-2014, 05:42 PM)austenbosten Wrote: I'm not disturbed by Pope Francis's tweets, we all know his economic leanings; what I'm most disturbed by is the continued fawning and defense over every thing His Holiness does by these Neo-Caths. He's the Pope, not God...he is more than capable of making mistakes....a lot of mistakes and instead of defending him we should correct him or at least request that he expound further.

The constant knee-jerk defense among some of these Catholics is just becoming embarrassing.
As is the knee jerk reactions against him.

You only have to read Aquinas to know that inequality can demand justice.

Yes I agree, but many knee-jerk reactions against Holy Father are from non-Catholics or people whom many wouldn't consider Catholic because of their anti-Catholic position. Regarding Inequality, yes inequality demands justice, but let's be honest calling inequality, the root of all social evil is stretching it a bit and is in danger of promoting materialism which was condemned in Rerum Novarum.

Maybe we should see his off-the-cuff remarks as as a challenge intended to cause discussion. rather than definitive statements.

Reply
#18
Pope Francis is no economics ace.
Reply
#19
This is an old tweet. I remember at the time I was amazed at how fast neo-Catholics were trying to explain the tweet; it was really an iconic scene, after all, we should all just disregard everything coming from twitter, it is a product of modernity obsession with immediacy. But no, every twitter from the pope must be infallible.
Even though I usually find this sort of general statements vacuous, this one in particular seems to prefer Marx (maybe next saint?) to S. Augustine; with this and with the quick responses I wrote the following in the commentaries of some blog:
(By the way, keep in mind, those citing Evangelii Gaudium, that to extract this vacuity from a text and amplify it to extremes does increase suspicions).


I’ve read the justification on catholicculture, and frankly, it does not convince me. Indeed the Latin version could be translated in such a way that it expresses only a tautology (and indeed I’ve heard there are some issues with English translations), but the other versions are not like that.

And of course what is expressed in the tweet and in the Evangelii Gaudium is not the same as the money quote of I Timothy. Admittedly, to desire money is usually a desire for power, and thus a desire of inequality, but then the root would not be inequality itself, but the desire to dominate violently. And of course, St. Paul is not saying there that inequality is itself a bad thing (this seems to assume a rather modern or postmodern ontology that sees difference as violence), and if not from the Evangelii Gaudium, from the tweet itself this is what it seems to be saying (one should ask oneself what happens to perception when a statement that is in the context of practical exhortations is intentionally isolated and blown out of proportions like this – that is why I hate twitter and just think its silly and dangerous in almost every context).
Finally, implicitly from the tweet and explicitly from the Evangelii Gaudium, the solution proposed is to end inequality, but that’s not at all what St. Paul proposes for the solution, he proposes (indeed commands Timoty) to love righteousness and pursue holiness. And while addressing the rich he does not command them to be more equal, but not to trust in their money (this is not to say, I haste to add, that a rich person should be indifferent to the poor).

So really, I don’t see how anyone could square these things. Pope Francis might have good intentions, but he is operating, it seems, on some other non-Christian paradigm. I myself agree with the Pope that without any real morals capitalism is indeed cruel, so I don’t regard all critic towards capitalism to be anti-Christian, but statements like this, even when made in the context of the Evangelii Gaudium, are just too vacuous.
Reply
#20
Great a double M.  Modernist Marxist.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)