Pope Tweets: Inequality is the Root of Social Evil
#21
(05-09-2014, 08:19 PM)triumphguy Wrote: Maybe we should see his off-the-cuff remarks as as a challenge intended to cause discussion. rather than definitive statements.

Why discuss? I would prefer to be taught by the Holy Father than be confused.
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#22
A challenge to what? "there's no Catholic God", "proselytism is solemn nonsense", televangelist heretics are "brother bishops" whose prayers the Catholic Church needs... It's a challenge for me to give my assent to this mans teachings or to even believe he holds the Catholic faith. Sometimes a false,heretical statement is just that, a false heretical statement and nothing more. The Pope is not some divine oracle whose every word in whatever context holds the key to the sacred mysteries.
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#23
(05-09-2014, 09:52 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(05-09-2014, 08:19 PM)triumphguy Wrote: Maybe we should see his off-the-cuff remarks as as a challenge intended to cause discussion. rather than definitive statements.

Why discuss? I would prefer to be taught by the Holy Father than be confused.

Sure!  Who cares what he says?  He's the Holy Father so regardless of what he says it's true!  This is a man who stated "The most serious of the evils that afflict the world these days are youth unemployment and the loneliness of the old."  Face it, this man does not view the lack of subjection Christ the King, rampant sodomy, divorce and remarriage, or abortion to be the great evils of the world.  But like you said, he's the Holy Father so right on dude!  Who are we to judge?!
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#24
What I find very disturbing is he is now promoting gov't redistribution.  Seriously?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_REL_VATICAN_UN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-05-09-06-31-28 

This really is upsetting, coming from a Catholic, let alone the Pope:  He said a more equal form of economic progress can be had through "the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the state, as well as indispensable cooperation between the private sector and civil society."  Really?  He is serious?  Obama must be jumping for joy at this kind of talk from the head of the Catholic church. 

Encouraging the "state" to redistribute economic benefits and give it more power is total BS.  We need less gov't not more.  This smacks to me of liberation theology and socialism.  I wonder what Fulton Sheen would say to this kind of talk.  From watching his tv shows and listening to his talks I think he would be very disturbed as well. 

How very disappointing.

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#25
(05-10-2014, 07:24 AM)NorthernTrad Wrote:
(05-09-2014, 09:52 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(05-09-2014, 08:19 PM)triumphguy Wrote: Maybe we should see his off-the-cuff remarks as as a challenge intended to cause discussion. rather than definitive statements.

Why discuss? I would prefer to be taught by the Holy Father than be confused.

Sure!  Who cares what he says?  He's the Holy Father so regardless of what he says it's true!  This is a man who stated "The most serious of the evils that afflict the world these days are youth unemployment and the loneliness of the old."   Face it, this man does not view the lack of subjection Christ the King, rampant sodomy, divorce and remarriage, or abortion to be the great evils of the world.  But like you said, he's the Holy Father so right on dude!  Who are we to judge?!

Maybe if you calmed your crazy Pope-bashing ass down, you would realize that I was not defending Holy Father's remarks ya jerk. I was simply stating that I prefer my Pope to be a teacher, not one who makes tweets that "encourages" discussion as if the Truth has yet to be revealed like we are some Protestant church and not The Deposit of Faith.



Seriously some of you Trads really need to pull the cucumber out of your ass and take some ecstasy, because you guys are so wound up and bitter 24/7
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#26
(05-10-2014, 08:29 AM)Philomena01 Wrote: What I find very disturbing is he is now promoting gov't redistribution.  Seriously?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_REL_VATICAN_UN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-05-09-06-31-28 

This really is upsetting, coming from a Catholic, let alone the Pope:  He said a more equal form of economic progress can be had through "the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the state, as well as indispensable cooperation between the private sector and civil society."  Really?  He is serious?  Obama must be jumping for joy at this kind of talk from the head of the Catholic church. 

Encouraging the "state" to redistribute economic benefits and give it more power is total BS.  We need less gov't not more.  This smacks to me of liberation theology and socialism.  I wonder what Fulton Sheen would say to this kind of talk.  From watching his tv shows and listening to his talks I think he would be very disturbed as well. 

How very disappointing.

I don't like the idea of wealth redistribution, but lets be honest. The world does have massive inequality, even here in the US and it's only getting worse. Something needs to be done. This isn't the 1950s where you had rich, middle-class and poor....we are increasingly seeing a widening poor class and a wealthier wealthy class. The gaps are getting bad, even if Republicans wish to bury their heads in the sand.
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#27
(05-09-2014, 09:52 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(05-09-2014, 08:19 PM)triumphguy Wrote: Maybe we should see his off-the-cuff remarks as as a challenge intended to cause discussion. rather than definitive statements.

Why discuss? I would prefer to be taught by the Holy Father than be confused.
Why discuss ?

I'm a teacher. I teach 16, 17 and 18 year-olds. They learn more from discussion than from a lecture.

I can TELL them what is right, but until they they SAY what is right they won't believe it.

I was also in the insurance (and financial services) business for 12 years.

There was a saying (common to all sales). If you tell a client something they doubt it. If they say it it's true. The art of getting a client to say "I need this product" is the mark of a good salesman (and I'm not saying the Pope is a salesman ;) - it's an analogy). Telling a client they need a product is the sign of a poor salesman.

Discussion is the hallmark of adult-ed.

The Pope is trying to treat us as adults in the faith.

That's my theory, and I'm sticking with it.

BTW - Cucumbers and ecstasy - LOL.
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#28
(05-10-2014, 08:29 AM)Philomena01 Wrote: What I find very disturbing is he is now promoting gov't redistribution.  Seriously?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_REL_VATICAN_UN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-05-09-06-31-28 

This really is upsetting, coming from a Catholic, let alone the Pope:  He said a more equal form of economic progress can be had through "the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the state, as well as indispensable cooperation between the private sector and civil society."  Really?  He is serious?  Obama must be jumping for joy at this kind of talk from the head of the Catholic church. 

Encouraging the "state" to redistribute economic benefits and give it more power is total BS.  We need less gov't not more.  This smacks to me of liberation theology and socialism.  I wonder what Fulton Sheen would say to this kind of talk.  From watching his tv shows and listening to his talks I think he would be very disturbed as well. 

How very disappointing.

I was told once that Jesuits have the tendency to be on the liberal,social justice side.  After reading a book by Father James Martin, I can now agree that this is so.  His book called, "My Life With The Saints", was disturbing to me.  For many many reasons.  I asked a priest about this and he said that we must be careful with what we let into our lives.  Since the Holy Father is a Jesuit, I understand how these views may be true.  I hate to say it, but maybe it is how he thinks and not just misunderstandings.  :'((
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#29
How is calling protestant televangelists "brother bishops" an adult discussion of the faith?
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#30
(05-10-2014, 04:41 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: How is calling protestant televangelists "brother bishops" an adult discussion of the faith?

Here's why:

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...sg33962634

There's a VERY IMPORTANT POINT which people seem to choose to miss:

The Pope is explicitly speaking "heartfully" with a "special language and grammar" "a simple grammar - "love God above all things, and love the other because he is your brother and sister."

He's speaking from the grammar of the things we can agree on as Catholics and Evangelicals.

He says: "with these two rules we can go ahead."

The Pope clearly signifies therefore that he is not speaking the "grammar" of Catholic Pope to Evangelical Protestant" but as a brother to brothers and sisters who love God and who love the other.

He describes the common ground, and that's the ground he stands on when he talks, and this ground (grammar) is loving God above all things and loving the other.

What does he NOT talk about? Anything else except the fact that he shares the grammar of loving God and loving neighbour.

It's only after making this point for a full two minutes that he actually begins his address.

First Pope Francis greets them as a Church with a leader (bishop brother) who he has been friends with for years. He using the "simple grammar," not Ecclesiastical language.

He greets them with "longing" and "yearning."

He is joyful because they have "come together worship Jesus Christ the only Lord, and to pray to the Father and to receive the Spirit." He is acknowledging their belief in the Trinity, and the Pope sees God at work in this.

He is yearning because "there are families that love one another, and families that don't love one another."   And he states and acknowledges that "we are separated."

The Pope talks about why we are separated: "It is sin that has separated us. All our sins, the misunderstandings throughout history"

"It's been a long road of sin that we have shared in. Who is to blame?"

Have we all sinned? The Body of Christ is blameless, but we in the Church have often and grievously sinned, as have those who have separated.

"We all share the blame. We have all sinned. There is only one blameless, the Lord."


"I am nostalgic (yearning), that this separation comes to an end and gives us communion."  So the separation has to come to an end BEFORE the communion. So NO communion!

"I am nostalgic (yearning) of that embrace." But the Pope is longing for that time of union.

"that the holy Scriptures talk of when Joseph's brothers begin to starve from hunger, they went to Egypt to buy  so that they could eat. They went to buy, they had the money but they couldn't eat the money"

What does this specific text mean in light of the fact that Evangelicals he is talking to believe in the prosperity gospel? Huh? Shocked

"But there they found something more than food, they found their brother."

More than prosperity - they found the true Church!

"All of us have currency. the currency of our culture. The currency of our history. We have a lot of cultural riches, and religious riches, and we have diverse Traditions. But we have to encounter one another as Brothers."

True or true? Unless we encounter our "separated brethren" as brothers there will be no true communion.

And he is acknowledging the differences. But

"we must cry together, like Joseph did" (now were the source of Joseph's tear the same as his brothers?) "These tears will unite us. The tears of Love."

and he ends:

"I am speaking to you as a brother. I speak to you in a simple way."  Reiterating the "grammar" with which he speaks. Have you never had a colleague at work "speak to you as a friend" rather than a boss/co-worker.

"with joy and nostalgia (yearning). Let allow our nostalgia (yearning) to grow, because this will propel us to find each other, to embrace one another."

How did Joseph find his brothers?... when they came to Egypt.

"And together to worship Jesus Christ as the only Lord of History.

I thank you profoundly for listening to me. I thank you profoundly for allowing me to speak the language of the heart. And I will pray for you, I will do it but I need your prayers. And lets pray to the Lord that He unites us. Come on we are brothers. Lets give each other a spiritual hug and  let God complete the work He has begun."
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