Pope Tweets: Inequality is the Root of Social Evil
#41
(05-10-2014, 09:22 PM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote:
(05-10-2014, 09:02 PM)triumphguy Wrote:
(05-10-2014, 08:20 PM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote:
(05-10-2014, 07:40 PM)triumphguy Wrote: So nothing else he said matters then? The context doesn't matter. The way he frames the whole "brother" idea doesn't matter? The story of Joseph?

So we don't focus on meaning anymore, just labels, or hot button words?



And this, children, is the practice of the Figure known as Rhetorical Question.

Presumably children, this poster doesn't want to answer said question. :eyeroll:

Possibly this poster comes here in part to entertain himself, in part to educate himself, and not get drawn into a long debate.  Possibly this poster has been reading large numbers of treatises on Ancient Greek and Latin Literary Criticism.  Possibly this is because said poster is writing a very challenging paper on why the Greeks and Romans preferred Homer to every other poet.  And that, in turn, might just possibly be the reason that this poster has no desire to do tons of research to prove what he might just possibly think should be patently obvious to anyone who is willing to see.

There really are all kinds of possible explanations.

Try thinking of a point to discuss, or a question to ask, or a real argument, or at least a manly insult to hurl  rather than this passive aggressive type of blithering.
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#42
(05-10-2014, 11:48 PM)triumphguy Wrote: Try thinking of a point to discuss, or a question to ask, or a real argument, or at least a manly insult to hurl  rather than this passive aggressive type of blithering.

K
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#43
(05-10-2014, 11:47 PM)triumphguy Wrote:
(05-10-2014, 10:25 PM)austenbosten Wrote:
(05-10-2014, 09:04 PM)triumphguy Wrote: I think we (Catholics) are brighter than that.

I think you have a naive view of Catholics. Yes "we" as in the community here might be brighter than that; but you have to account for the millions of Catholics who think that one can promote sodomy, abortion, divorce and other grave sins and still think they are a practicing Catholic.

But this (off topic) "Brother Bishop"  phrase is not in relation to liberal Catholics, but an evangelical church which seems to be in training for a swim across the Tiber.

He's the Pope, anything he says that's going to be made public is in relation to not just Catholics, but the world. Let's assume that this "church" does swim the Tiber, what of all the millions (including our new neophytes) who will walk away thinking that when Cardinal O'Malley is getting "blessed" by a woman in garb at a Methodist chuyuch, that it's really a bishop being baptized by another bishop...and not some confused bishop pandering to a woman mocking the apostles by passing herself as a bishop in an heretical chuyuch.
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#44
My guess:  Kenneth Copeland won't be swimming the Tiber. He's making way too much money doing what he does. And few Catholics would even try to get him to swim it anyway.



Here's how he makes those billions:


Here's that video of the message from the Pope to Copeland.


What's even more interesting is what the priest says, if you ask me. A few quotes from this man, who's pushing "Charismatic Catholicism" -- and only came to the Church because he sees Her now as doing the same, as having changed her teachings:

He'd been raised Prot, this priest, and was talking about how he used to work for Copeland, etc., and how he and his wife would travel to Italy all the time and preach to their families. They didnt want to send them to the Italian evangelical "churches" because, at that time, they were extremely legalistic, so they got them to go to the Catholic Church. That was a problem, though, because, "but sending them back to the Catholic Church, it was so traditional that it was going to kill their faith."

"My wife, when she saw that she could be Catholic, and Charismatic, and Evangelical, and Pentecostal, it was absolutely accepted within the Catholic Church, she said she'd like to re-connect her roots with her Catholic culture. So she did. So I was working with the Catholic Church, my wife was working a Charismatic Catholic, our kids were going to Catholic school, so we raised our kids Catholic. And Charismatics, Pentecostals, Evangelicals. Jesus was all of those, you know!"

"Do you want only one denomination of Jesus?"

"If you accept that Christ is living in me, and the Presence of God is in me, and the Presence of God is in you, that's all we need."

"As I challenge my Protestant pastor friends, if there is no more protest, how can there be a Protestant 'church'? Maybe we're all now Catholics again. But we are reformed; we're Catholic in a universal sense. We're not protesting the doctrine of salvation by the Catholic Church anymore. We now preach the same Gospel. We now preach we are saved by grace through faith alone. Alone! The word 'alone' was the argument for 500 years."  [Vox:  That is not what the Church teaches. We are saved by grace alone, through faith and works offered in LOVE. GRACE alone, not "faith alone." And James tells us VERY clearly that faith without works is dead.]

So have the Prots changed their teachings? I don't think so. And the Church hasn't changed Hers. But one'd be hard-pressed to KNOW that given how Her teachings are presented by priests like this guy.


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#45
(05-11-2014, 09:55 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: "Do you want only one denomination of Jesus?"

YES! Yes I do!

There are only two "denominations of Jesus" I'll accept:

A Latin denomination and a Greek Denomination  :grin:
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#46
(05-11-2014, 09:55 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: My guess:  Kenneth Copeland won't be swimming the Tiber. He's making way too much money doing what he does. And few Catholics would even try to get him to swim it anyway.

[video=youtube]

[video=youtube]

Here's how he makes those billions:

[video=youtube]

Here's that video of the message from the Pope to Copeland.

[video=youtube]

What's even more interesting is what the priest says, if you ask me. A few quotes from this man, who's pushing "Charismatic Catholicism" -- and only came to the Church because he sees Her now as doing the same, as having changed her teachings:

He'd been raised Prot, this priest, and was talking about how he used to work for Copeland, etc., and how he and his wife would travel to Italy all the time and preach to their families. They didnt want to send them to the Italian evangelical "churches" because, at that time, they were extremely legalistic, so they got them to go to the Catholic Church. That was a problem, though, because, "but sending them back to the Catholic Church, it was so traditional that it was going to kill their faith."

"My wife, when she saw that she could be Catholic, and Charismatic, and Evangelical, and Pentecostal, it was absolutely accepted within the Catholic Church, she said she'd like to re-connect her roots with her Catholic culture. So she did. So I was working with the Catholic Church, my wife was working a Charismatic Catholic, our kids were going to Catholic school, so we raised our kids Catholic. And Charismatics, Pentecostals, Evangelicals. Jesus was all of those, you know!"

"Do you want only one denomination of Jesus?"

"If you accept that Christ is living in me, and the Presence of God is in me, and the Presence of God is in you, that's all we need."

"As I challenge my Protestant pastor friends, if there is no more protest, how can there be a Protestant 'church'? Maybe we're all now Catholics again. But we are reformed; we're Catholic in a universal sense. We're not protesting the doctrine of salvation by the Catholic Church anymore. We now preach the same Gospel. We now preach we are saved by grace through faith alone. Alone! The word 'alone' was the argument for 500 years."  [Vox:  That is not what the Church teaches. We are saved by grace alone, through faith and works offered in LOVE. GRACE alone, not "faith alone." And James tells us VERY clearly that faith without works is dead.]

So have the Prots changed their teachings? I don't think so. And the Church hasn't changed Hers. But one'd be hard-pressed to KNOW that given how Her teachings are presented by priests like this guy.


Oh boy, its painful to watch that video. That Tony Palmer guy has absolutely no clue, he makes a confusion so great that one doesn't even know where to begin responding.
By the way, who is this Palmer? I read on Wikipedia that he is not even Anglican (are we in a state that the Anglicans have more spine than we?? Come on!). Why then was he visiting the archbishop of Buenos Aires when he was there?

There's a small but growing group among Protestants who are ever more ashamed of their Protest. Maybe because they realize, now with some centuries to cool things down, that if there ever were any need for reform it was accomplished at Trent; and the way to call for it was not to call a lawyer (Calvin) and begin your own church. And they are ashamed because their own identities, and their whole lives, are lived in opposition to something; also the more intelligent among them are also ashamed how Protestantism is basically a product of modern philosophy that have no real connection to classicism, and therefore they are completely isolated from the Fathers – they only consider tradition when it agrees with them (and they are masters of misquoting). Thus the existence of people like Peter Leithart (the man that, from what I gather, destroyed First Things).

But because of pride they won't come back to the Church, thus they want to change it. That quote summarizes perfectly that absolute voluntarism behind Protestantism: because they found out that they could do their stuff in the Church they became more Catholic – instead of being Catholic because Truth's force.
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#47
I wouldn't attach any value to "tweets," especially give the limited text, but I think many are missing the context of this one and reacting as if its some new revelation. In fact, it is merely sentence from the post-synodal exhortation Evangelii Gaudium.  Here's the context:

Pope Francis, EG Wrote:The economy and the distribution of income

202. The need to resolve the structural causes of poverty cannot be delayed, not only for the pragmatic reason of its urgency for the good order of society, but because society needs to be cured of a sickness which is weakening and frustrating it, and which can only lead to new crises. Welfare projects, which meet certain urgent needs, should be considered merely temporary responses. As long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality,[173] no solution will be found for the world’s problems or, for that matter, to any problems. Inequality is the root of social ills.

203. The dignity of each human person and the pursuit of the common good are concerns which ought to shape all economic policies. At times, however, they seem to be a mere addendum imported from without in order to fill out a political discourse lacking in perspectives or plans for true and integral development. How many words prove irksome to this system! It is irksome when the question of ethics is raised, when global solidarity is invoked, when the distribution of goods is mentioned, when reference in made to protecting labour and defending the dignity of the powerless, when allusion is made to a God who demands a commitment to justice. At other times these issues are exploited by a rhetoric which cheapens them. Casual indifference in the face of such questions empties our lives and our words of all meaning. Business is a vocation, and a noble vocation, provided that those engaged in it see themselves challenged by a greater meaning in life; this will enable them truly to serve the common good by striving to increase the goods of this world and to make them more accessible to all.

204. We can no longer trust in the unseen forces and the invisible hand of the market. Growth in justice requires more than economic growth, while presupposing such growth: it requires decisions, programmes, mechanisms and processes specifically geared to a better distribution of income, the creation of sources of employment and an integral promotion of the poor which goes beyond a simple welfare mentality. I am far from proposing an irresponsible populism, but the economy can no longer turn to remedies that are a new poison, such as attempting to increase profits by reducing the work force and thereby adding to the ranks of the excluded.

205. I ask God to give us more politicians capable of sincere and effective dialogue aimed at healing the deepest roots – and not simply the appearances – of the evils in our world! Politics, though often denigrated, remains a lofty vocation and one of the highest forms of charity, inasmuch as it seeks the common good.[174] We need to be convinced that charity “is the principle not only of micro-relationships (with friends, with family members or within small groups) but also of macro-relationships (social, economic and political ones)”.[175] I beg the Lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed by the state of society, the people, the lives of the poor! It is vital that government leaders and financial leaders take heed and broaden their horizons, working to ensure that all citizens have dignified work, education and healthcare. Why not turn to God and ask him to inspire their plans? I am firmly convinced that openness to the transcendent can bring about a new political and economic mindset which would help to break down the wall of separation between the economy and the common good of society.

[173] This implies a commitment to “eliminate the structural causes of global economic
dysfunction”: BENEDICT XVI, Address to the Diplomatic Corps (8 January 2007): AAS 99
(2007), 73.
[174] Cf. COMMISSION SOCIALE DE L’ÉPISCOPAT FRANÇAIS, Réhabiliter la politique (17
February 1999); cf. PIUS XI, Message of 18 December 1927.
[175] BENEDICT XVI, Encyclical Letter Caritas in Veritate (29 June 2009), 2: AAS 101
(2009), 642.

This isn't really a new concept.  For example, see here in the encyclical Mater et Magistra:

Pope St. John XXIII, Mater et Magistra Wrote:73. In view of the rapid expansion of national economies, particularly since the war, there is one very important social principle to which We would draw your attention. It is this: Economic progress must be accompanied by a corresponding social progress, so that all classes of citizens can participate in the increased productivity. The utmost vigilance and effort is needed to ensure that social inequalities, so far from increasing, are reduced to a minimum.

74. As Our Predecessor Pius XII observed with evident justification: "Likewise the national economy, as it is the product of the men who work together in the community of the State, has no other end than to secure without interruption the material conditions in which the individual life of the citizens may fully develop. Where this is secured in a permanent way, a people will be, in a true sense, economically rich, because the general well-being, and consequently the personal right of all to the use of worldly goods, is thus actuated in conformity with the purpose willed by the Creator."[27] From this it follows that the economic prosperity of a nation is not so much its total assets in terms of wealth and property, as the equitable division and distribution of this wealth. This it is which guarantees the personal development of the members of society, which is the true goal of a nation's economy.
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#48
(05-12-2014, 04:26 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: This isn't really a new concept.  For example, see here in the encyclical Mater et Magistra:

Pope St. John XXIII, Mater et Magistra Wrote:73. In view of the rapid expansion of national economies, particularly since the war, there is one very important social principle to which We would draw your attention. It is this: Economic progress must be accompanied by a corresponding social progress, so that all classes of citizens can participate in the increased productivity. The utmost vigilance and effort is needed to ensure that social inequalities, so far from increasing, are reduced to a minimum.

Is the bolded really a traditional teaching?  I would think some social inequalities should increase, while some should decrease.
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#49
In an audience with members of the Centesimus Annus – Pro Pontifice Foundation, Pope Francis reflected on solidarity, the theme of the foundation’s conference in Rome.

Solidarity is “intrinsic to the social doctrine” of the Church and “always harmonizes with subsidiarity,” said Pope Francis, who noted that the theme “emerged with great prominence in the magisterium of St. John Paul II” and was “updated by Benedict XVI in Caritas in Veritate.”

Referring to an “allergy to words like solidarity, fair distribution of goods, [and] the priority of labor,” which has been intensified by the current economic crisis, Pope Francis said that “the Christian entrepreneur is encouraged always to compare the Gospel with the reality in which he works; and the Gospel asks him to give priority to the human person and the common good, to do his part to ensure that there are job opportunities for work, for dignified work.”

Noting that the work environment sometimes becomes “arid, hostile, inhumane,” the Pope said that “the entrepreneur needs to pray, and pray a lot when the challenges are tougher


http://www.catholicculture.org/news/head...ryid=21373
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