Pope Kisses Gay/Pedophillia Activists Hand
#21
(05-11-2014, 02:37 AM)triumphguy Wrote: No that was better.

Glad you approve.

Quote:Well since there are reports that Pope Francis met Bishop Fellay that might have happened.

Yes, I know it might.  I wanted to set the goal for you where it at least appeared possible to justify Bergoglio.  That will make it all the more disappointing when he fails, as I consider will inevitably happen.

Quote:Have you read the works of St. Francis?

I'm not sure there are works of St. Francis.  We have one autograph manuscript by him, which I've read in translation.  I've also read a good bit about the saint, largely due to my own time with the Dominicans, whose early history is closely tied up with that of the Franciscans.  Although I believe you have a distinct age advantage, I'd be willing to wager a small amount that I've read more of the primary documents than you have.  As for secondary, the big one I remember reading was Chesterton's work on St. Francis, but I'm sure I've also read various things hither, thither, and yon.

I will confess that I had forgotten the bit about Francis' respect for the clergy, and so you win some kudos from me for remembering it, but I really, really don't think it would apply here.  We're talking about a man who is clearly teaching heresy, and worse, to Christians, whether or not he's been banished from the Church.  Such, at least, is my impression-- I admit that I haven't read all the full detail.  If you can correct me, however uppity I may otherwise be, I'm always ready to listen.

Quote:Was Luther within the church, or had he split when Francis time travels? ???

Oh, let's make it more fun than that.  Let's say that Luther is already teaching condemnable doctrine and encouraging Christians to despise their legitimate pastors (since that seems, clearly, to be exactly what this priest is doing).  But let's say he has not yet received the full condemnation of the Church.  Same drill for Nestorius, too, if you like.

Under those circumstances, I say it's absolutely nuts to say that St. Francis would kiss his hand.  St. Francis was a man of his time, and the men of his time understood what heresy was:  spiritual murder.

So once again, I defy you:  show me that Francis would kiss the hand of a spiritual murderer.
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#22
I would also like to point out that he concelebrated Mass with this apostate. Any Pope worth his salt would have excommunicated him and called to repentance.
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#23
(05-11-2014, 09:27 AM)JuniorCouncilor Wrote:
(05-11-2014, 02:37 AM)triumphguy Wrote: No that was better.

Glad you approve.

Quote:Well since there are reports that Pope Francis met Bishop Fellay that might have happened.

Yes, I know it might.  I wanted to set the goal for you where it at least appeared possible to justify Bergoglio.  That will make it all the more disappointing when he fails, as I consider will inevitably happen.

Quote:Have you read the works of St. Francis?

I'm not sure there are works of St. Francis.  We have one autograph manuscript by him, which I've read in translation.  I've also read a good bit about the saint, largely due to my own time with the Dominicans, whose early history is closely tied up with that of the Franciscans.  Although I believe you have a distinct age advantage, I'd be willing to wager a small amount that I've read more of the primary documents than you have.  As for secondary, the big one I remember reading was Chesterton's work on St. Francis, but I'm sure I've also read various things hither, thither, and yon.

I will confess that I had forgotten the bit about Francis' respect for the clergy, and so you win some kudos from me for remembering it, but I really, really don't think it would apply here.  We're talking about a man who is clearly teaching heresy, and worse, to Christians, whether or not he's been banished from the Church.  Such, at least, is my impression-- I admit that I haven't read all the full detail.  If you can correct me, however uppity I may otherwise be, I'm always ready to listen.

Quote:Was Luther within the church, or had he split when Francis time travels? ???

Oh, let's make it more fun than that.  Let's say that Luther is already teaching condemnable doctrine and encouraging Christians to despise their legitimate pastors (since that seems, clearly, to be exactly what this priest is doing).  But let's say he has not yet received the full condemnation of the Church.  Same drill for Nestorius, too, if you like.

Under those circumstances, I say it's absolutely nuts to say that St. Francis would kiss his hand.  St. Francis was a man of his time, and the men of his time understood what heresy was:  spiritual murder.

So once again, I defy you:  show me that Francis would kiss the hand of a spiritual murderer.

Well since we're doing the manly measuring thing now - there's a whole book of primary documents/writings of Francis that you obviously do not know exist (whether or not you were in the Dominicans), which I studied as part of a Masters in Franciscan Studies from the guy who translated them  - so I doubt you've read more than me, since you've never heard of them. Google writing of Francis if you're interested. I gather you are not really.
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#24


Triumph Guy, can we stop with the initiating of pissing contests? Please? Can we just stick to the arguments and not turn things into questions of who's read more of this or that, or into anything involving name-calling, etc.? I really want for this forum to be a place that's above all that sort of thing.

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#25
(05-13-2014, 08:00 PM)triumphguy Wrote: Well since we're doing the manly measuring thing now - there's a whole book of primary documents/writings of Francis that you obviously do not know exist (whether or not you were in the Dominicans), which I studied as part of a Masters in Franciscan Studies from the guy who translated them  - so I doubt you've read more than me, since you've never heard of them. Google writing of Francis if you're interested. I gather you are not really.

If you have bite-sized chunks for me, sure, I'd be interested.  I'm not interested in reading the collected works of all Franciscans ever, nor more than 10 pages at a time.  As I tried to explain to you before, I do come here to educate myself, but also to amuse myself.  I have a ton, and I do mean a TON of reading to get done before I take my Greek comps this fall, so my "reading for amusement" is a bit limited.

But I certainly grant that under the circumstances, you're probably right that you've read more Franciscan primary material than I have.  I congratulate you for that-- very worthwhile reading, obviously.

However, I would point out that it makes it all the more damning to your theory if you still can't point out where Francis would kiss the hand of a spiritual murderer.
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