Francis open to baptizing Martians
#1
Francis, 2014-05-12 Wrote:"That was unthinkable. If – for example - tomorrow an expedition of Martians came, and some of them came to us, here... Martians, right? Green, with that long nose and big ears, just like children paint them... And one says, 'But I want to be baptized!' What would happen?"
(source)

It seems the Jesuits are still missionary. :)

See Vatican Observatory's director's 2008 interview "The Extraterrestrial is my Brother."

The only question is: Are they human? It would seem a conditional baptism would be required. "If you are a human, I baptize thee… etc."
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#2
That is not, of course, what he said.  He was talking about the decision to admit Gentiles to the Church, and made the point (badly, as is his custom) that, to the Jewish Christians, the idea that Gentiles could be baptized was as strange as the idea of  baptizing space aliens would be to us.  The world would be a better place if the news media did not hang on his every word and sensationalize everything he says.
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#3
(05-13-2014, 11:51 AM)Geremia Wrote:
Francis, 2014-05-12 Wrote:"That was unthinkable. If – for example - tomorrow an expedition of Martians came, and some of them came to us, here... Martians, right? Green, with that long nose and big ears, just like children paint them... And one says, 'But I want to be baptized!' What would happen?"
(source)

It seems the Jesuits are still missionary. :)

See Vatican Observatory's director's 2008 interview "The Extraterrestrial is my Brother."

The only question is: Are they human? It would seem a conditional baptism would be required. "If you are a human, I baptize thee… etc."

For Aquinas a human is just a rational animal.  So if we came across a Martian and we could tell that the Martian was a rational animal, then it would actually be human.  Now the question becomes are the sacraments efficacious for every human? 
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#4
(05-13-2014, 12:04 PM)spasiisochrani Wrote: That is not, of course, what he said.  He was talking about the decision to admit Gentiles to the Church, and made the point (badly, as is his custom) that, to the Jewish Christians, the idea that Gentiles could be baptized was as strange as the idea of  baptizing space aliens would be to us. [size=10pt] The world would be a better place if Pope Francis spoke a little less often, thought more before doing so, and if the news media was able to actually report things accurately without inserting their own agenda.[/size]

Fixed it for you.  :)
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#5
(05-13-2014, 12:17 PM)brian_g Wrote: For Aquinas a human is just a rational animal.  So if we came across a Martian and we could tell that the Martian was a rational animal, then it would actually be human.  Now the question becomes are the sacraments efficacious for every human?
See this excellent The Thomist article: "Aquinas on Intelligent Extra-Terrestrial Life."
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#6
As has been mentioned, he appears to be using hyperbole to emphasize the universal call to conversion and baptism. But this question does seem to come up a lot, and I would argue that it would not be right to baptize aliens.

The salvation of man is linked to the incarnation. God became man so man might become God and it is through Baptism that man is incorporated into Christ for this purpose. Pope St. Zachary condemned the idea that there could be human beings on other planets (cf. Epistola XI ad Bonifacium , PL: 89, 946-947), because it would necessarily mean that they did not descend from Adam and Eve (and all human beings come from two original parents). Aliens therefore would not be humans. If they had immortal souls and sinned, like the fallen angels, they couldn't be saved--unless some other person of the Trinity became incarnate as an alien--but this has not happened--and according to St. Anselm in the Cur Deus Homo, any other person of the Trinity becoming incarnate would not be wholly fitting (the Father-Son relationship is what made it fitting for the Second Person to lower Himself).
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#7
There is an absolutely brilliant short story by Polish writer Jacek Dukaj, which deals with exactly this - we discover extraterrestial intelligent creatures, the Vatican says they have immortal souls, we convert them. Then 98% of Catholic are non-human. And the new pope is likely to be a being that lays eggs and breathes chlorine. I wish it was translated for you to read.
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#8
(05-13-2014, 01:16 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: The salvation of man is linked to the incarnation. God became man so man might become God and it is through Baptism that man is incorporated into Christ for this purpose. Pope St. Zachary condemned the idea that there could be human beings on other planets (cf. Epistola XI ad Bonifacium , PL: 89, 946-947), because it would necessarily mean that they did not descend from Adam and Eve (and all human beings come from two original parents).
What about it necessarily implies polygenism?
(05-13-2014, 01:16 PM)SaintSebastian Wrote: Aliens therefore would not be humans. If they had immortal souls and sinned, like the fallen angels, they couldn't be saved--unless some other person of the Trinity became incarnate as an alien--but this has not happened--and according to St. Anselm in the Cur Deus Homo, any other person of the Trinity becoming incarnate would not be wholly fitting (the Father-Son relationship is what made it fitting for the Second Person to lower Himself).
St. Thomas doesn't rule out the possibility of the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity taking on other human natures (Summa Theologica III q. 3 a. 7, "Whether one Divine Person can assume two human natures?"), but he thinks it's improbable:
Summa III q. 3 a. 7, "Whether one Divine Person can assume two human natures?" Wrote:That which is able [to do something] in one case and not in another has its power limited to one. The power of a divine person is, however, infinite, and it ought not be said that a divine person had assumed one human nature is such a manner that another could not be assumed to its personhood, for that is impossible, because an uncreated thing cannot be comprehended by a created thing. It is manifest therefore that whether we consider the divine person according to power, which is the principle of the union, or according to its personhood which is the term of the union, it must be said that the divine person besides a human nature which it has assumed, is able to assume another numerically different human nature.
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#9
(05-13-2014, 12:21 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(05-13-2014, 12:04 PM)spasiisochrani Wrote: That is not, of course, what he said.  He was talking about the decision to admit Gentiles to the Church, and made the point (badly, as is his custom) that, to the Jewish Christians, the idea that Gentiles could be baptized was as strange as the idea of  baptizing space aliens would be to us. [size=10pt] The world would be a better place if Pope Francis spoke a little less often, thought more before doing so, and if the news media was able to actually report things accurately without inserting their own agenda.[/size]

Fixed it for you.  :)

That's true, too.
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#10
(05-13-2014, 01:25 PM)Geremia Wrote: What about it necessarily implies polygenism?
I think it's because interplanetary travel has not been invented yet.  The descendants of Adam and Eve have been unable to leave earth and live on another planet, therefore beings from another planet would not be descendants of Adam and Eve.

Quote:St. Thomas doesn't rule out the possibility of the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity taking on other human natures (Summa Theologica III q. 3 a. 7, "Whether one Divine Person can assume two human natures?"), but he thinks it's improbable:
Summa III q. 3 a. 7, "Whether one Divine Person can assume two human natures?" Wrote:That which is able [to do something] in one case and not in another has its power limited to one. The power of a divine person is, however, infinite, and it ought not be said that a divine person had assumed one human nature is such a manner that another could not be assumed to its personhood, for that is impossible, because an uncreated thing cannot be comprehended by a created thing. It is manifest therefore that whether we consider the divine person according to power, which is the principle of the union, or according to its personhood which is the term of the union, it must be said that the divine person besides a human nature which it has assumed, is able to assume another numerically different human nature.

What about non-human natures?
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