Rorate Caeli: Many FI priests petitioning to be relieved of pontifical vows
#41
The Pope is a modern Jesuit.  I think even he could say that.  And what else need be said?

As to the Franciscans of the Immaculate: it is reported that the commissioner has drawn up a new constitution.  If that is so and it is put into place, the fallout will be tremendous. The true FI friar is not like a modern Capuchin and will not go along with a more lax rule.

The founder has been removed and he is the father and so now the family scatters.  BUT one day he will be exonerated and the Order truly restored and will again grow and be the lights that they have been.  This will not happen under a hostile takeover or under a 'foreign' commissar.  It may not happen under this Pope, only God knows when but it will happen.

These things have happened to other founders and other orders; it is not new.  It is no less painful than it was for other saints.  The big difference is that the world knows all about it.  Rarely does a day go by without some blog writing about this travesty and persecution.

In the end, Our Lady's Immaculate Heart WILL triumph!  We have her promise on that.
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#42
(05-16-2014, 02:16 PM)Magdalene Wrote: The Pope is a modern Jesuit.  I think even he could say that.  And what else need be said?

As to the Franciscans of the Immaculate: it is reported that the commissioner has drawn up a new constitution.  If that is so and it is put into place, the fallout will be tremendous. The true FI friar is not like a modern Capuchin and will not go along with a more lax rule.

The founder has been removed and he is the father and so now the family scatters.  BUT one day he will be exonerated and the Order truly restored and will again grow and be the lights that they have been.  This will not happen under a hostile takeover or under a 'foreign' commissar.  It may not happen under this Pope, only God knows when but it will happen.

These things have happened to other founders and other orders; it is not new.  It is no less painful than it was for other saints.  The big difference is that the world knows all about it.  Rarely does a day go by without some blog writing about this travesty and persecution.

In the end, Our Lady's Immaculate Heart WILL triumph!  We have her promise on that.

I absolute agree with you.

Once Our Lady has triumphed, I am certain there will be a religious order devoted to the Kolbean way. Or in the case of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, the union of the Seraphic life and the illustrious spirituality of Saint Maximilian Kolbe, unhindered by the nefarious doctrines of Modernism.
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#43
I think it's not enough to say that the Blessed Virgin's Immaculate Heart will triumph.

Now the friars are forced to accept all modernism and NO masses every day, which is very harmful to their congregation and their souls. I can't say this kind of persecution is unprecedented, as it happened to SSPX 40 years ago. But they are really poor friars, how could they flee from such circumstances?

Woe to those persecutors for their punishment in hell will be great!
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#44
(05-16-2014, 12:45 PM)Miles Immaculatae Wrote: How can we reasonably be expected to either be sedevacantists or believe the pope is not modernist?

I'm afraid in this case it really is kind of like trying to have your cake and eat it too.  But per forum rules, I can't really say any more here.

I will say that I definitely don't think Bp. Fellay was wrong when he said Bergoglio is a genuine modernist.
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#45
(05-16-2014, 06:52 AM)Cetil Wrote:
(05-15-2014, 11:45 PM)triumphguy Wrote: Other sources from inside say only 12 FI priests have asked to leave.

http://www.immacolata.com/index.php/en/3...n-14mag014

"The English speaking traditionalist website “Rorate Caeli” reports in a post of 14 May 2014 that 100/150 friars have asked Rome for “dispensation from vows.

There are actually only about a dozen priests and as many students in temporary vows of the total of 378 friars.

This news serves to create agitation and encourages those already hesitating through the psychological dynamic of suggestion.

The fifteen clerics after two months have not yet found a welcoming diocesan bishop, so this is simply a sabotaging and destructive strategy of former superiors who, for ideological reasons and personal interest, do not wish to see the present crisis end."

So who is right? Does anyone know?

C.

I took this quote directly from the order's website.
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#46
(05-16-2014, 11:26 PM)triumphguy Wrote:
(05-16-2014, 06:52 AM)Cetil Wrote:
(05-15-2014, 11:45 PM)triumphguy Wrote: Other sources from inside say only 12 FI priests have asked to leave.

http://www.immacolata.com/index.php/en/3...n-14mag014

"The English speaking traditionalist website “Rorate Caeli” reports in a post of 14 May 2014 that 100/150 friars have asked Rome for “dispensation from vows.

There are actually only about a dozen priests and as many students in temporary vows of the total of 378 friars.

This news serves to create agitation and encourages those already hesitating through the psychological dynamic of suggestion.

The fifteen clerics after two months have not yet found a welcoming diocesan bishop, so this is simply a sabotaging and destructive strategy of former superiors who, for ideological reasons and personal interest, do not wish to see the present crisis end."

So who is right? Does anyone know?

C.

I took this quote directly from the order's website.

Gotcha. I was just wondering how we sort it all out.

C.
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#47
Miles,
You said something that has me intrigued. You said; "That gives great strength to our argument, i.e. we can assert that the post-concilliar Popes are modernist without de facto becoming sedevacantists, which is the SSPX position. "

Is this "the SSPX pisition" as you say? If so it would explain things. I mean, the SSPX are also outside the structures of the Church and 'exercise no legitimate ministry". I have sometimes wondered about this, thinking, "Why can't they just re-enter the Church's canonical life, all the while believing that the Pope is,let's say, heterodox, and just work on until the storm clears?" The answer is always the same: they will be told not to publicly criticize the teachings of the reigning Pope or call into question the validity or orthodoxy of VII. And I don't think they have so much of a problem with the VII part, because they can ignore that, but the issue of not criticizing the Pope is one they will never get around, and I think they never will.I mean, technically, if you are a bishop and you think the Pope is wacky, it is your duty to tell him so and to tell the faithful so as well. So I think I understand their situation a little better now. I don't share it, because, at least for now, I can ignore popes and their words just as easily as anyone else from the early Church to the 19th century, while attending TLM said by a priest with no canonical "issues". I am a layman. It is a hard time to be a priest. Harder to be a bishop. Hard to be a friar. Anyway, thanks. I guess you helped me understand something I could never understand.
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#48
(05-17-2014, 12:56 AM)maldon Wrote: Miles,
You said something that has me intrigued. You said; "That gives great strength to our argument, i.e. we can assert that the post-concilliar Popes are modernist without de facto becoming sedevacantists, which is the SSPX position. "

Is this "the SSPX pisition" as you say? If so it would explain things. I mean, the SSPX are also outside the structures of the Church and 'exercise no legitimate ministry". I have sometimes wondered about this, thinking, "Why can't they just re-enter the Church's canonical life, all the while believing that the Pope is,let's say, heterodox, and just work on until the storm clears?" The answer is always the same: they will be told not to publicly criticize the teachings of the reigning Pope or call into question the validity or orthodoxy of VII. And I don't think they have so much of a problem with the VII part, because they can ignore that, but the issue of not criticizing the Pope is one they will never get around, and I think they never will.I mean, technically, if you are a bishop and you think the Pope is wacky, it is your duty to tell him so and to tell the faithful so as well. So I think I understand their situation a little better now. I don't share it, because, at least for now, I can ignore popes and their words just as easily as anyone else from the early Church to the 19th century, while attending TLM said by a priest with no canonical "issues". I am a layman. It is a hard time to be a priest. Harder to be a bishop. Hard to be a friar. Anyway, thanks. I guess you helped me understand something I could never understand.

Maldon,

I think you nailed it.  And yes, it's a hard time to be any kind of faithful Catholic-- a great time to win glory for God, though!
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#49
(05-17-2014, 12:28 AM)Cetil Wrote:
(05-16-2014, 11:26 PM)triumphguy Wrote:
(05-16-2014, 06:52 AM)Cetil Wrote:
(05-15-2014, 11:45 PM)triumphguy Wrote: Other sources from inside say only 12 FI priests have asked to leave.

http://www.immacolata.com/index.php/en/3...n-14mag014

"The English speaking traditionalist website “Rorate Caeli” reports in a post of 14 May 2014 that 100/150 friars have asked Rome for “dispensation from vows.

There are actually only about a dozen priests and as many students in temporary vows of the total of 378 friars.

This news serves to create agitation and encourages those already hesitating through the psychological dynamic of suggestion.

The fifteen clerics after two months have not yet found a welcoming diocesan bishop, so this is simply a sabotaging and destructive strategy of former superiors who, for ideological reasons and personal interest, do not wish to see the present crisis end."

So who is right? Does anyone know?

C.

I took this quote directly from the order's website.

Gotcha. I was just wondering how we sort it all out.

C.
Well when I went to Law-school we learned to look at original sources, rather than listen to hearsay.

And if we find out the sources have been tampered with we deal with that issue then.

Perhaps that same rule should apply here?
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#50
Junior Councillor,
You have no idea how hard it was for me before to understand the SSPX position. I could see FSSP or Sede. I coudn't see the SSPX position, probably because I saw it as a sort of "middle way," but really it isn't; it is to be between a rock and a hard place. And the real problem, as I see it more and more, is the issue of the bishop. The FSSP has no bishops, and if they are smart they will try NOT TO HAVE ANY until the dust clears in the Vatican. Why? Because a bishop has an absolute duty to correct his brothers, including his brother the pope. So while the SSPX could conceivably agree stay that VII was a valid council,which they do,because, being pastoral they can ignore it entirely, they cannot agree to refrain from criticizing the bishopsor the pope, because at that level, THAT is one of their sworn duties.

Wow. What a mess. And what a hard place to be in. But you know, I look at my own ignorance on this matter and wish there was one place where all of this was somehow stated, and updated, and in public. I need to educate myself more and help others.
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