Rorate Caeli: Many FI priests petitioning to be relieved of pontifical vows
#65
Miles,

Don't get me wrong. I also believe the entire NO will be abrogated in the future. I just think that it will begin with a process, indeed one that has just begun, and that a part of that road will involve a reform of it. And that eventually it will be removed or reformed to the point of being unrecognizable as the "NO"

Southpaw,
I am not sure I follow you. The highest authorities say that VII cannot be interpreted in contradiction to previous doctrine or Magisterial teachings. Therefore, is it not the case that the only "Church Teachings" we are obliged to accept from VII are those which do not contradict previous Church teaching? I am not talking about the Catechism or any saints, but about the documents of VII. There are no "new teachings" that ever need be accepted. Maybe we need specific examples, I don't know. Or maybe all the popes are to be condemned BY VII, for celebrating Mass facing the people, or for not teaching the people of Rome Latin, or for not giving pride of place to Gregorian chant. What am I to do if VII says Mass should be in Latin but the Pope celebrates it in Italian? Am I to say that he, the Pope is the Supreme Legislator,  above whom there is no one on earth, so he can do whatever he wants anyway? Maybe. But that would mean that we have to ignore the teachings inherent in his actions, and I find this very very very complicated and quite frankly not worth the effort. Does VII say that he can wash the feet of a woman on Holy Thursday, or can the Pope do this because he is Da Man? I know that VII does not call for this. I must suppose he is simply Da Man. Fair enough. But now, what am I to do with the pedagogical and therefore Magisterial effects of his actions? You might say, well, those are not teachings, but actions. In that case, I might go about my own actions and ignore his teachings. Should I be condemned? Better yet. Where is the Magisterium when popes kiss Korans, get "creative" with the liturgy, distribute communion in the hand (sometimes breaking their own rules, as in the case of BXVI and the Queen of Spain). Where is the Magisterium, the "Church Teaching" that is supposed to have it all so clear for me? It is silent as the grave. So no, I think that in a context in which Popes pick and choose what parts of their own liturgical books they want to accept and reject, what parts of their job description they plan to work at or not work at, and in which there is widespread disagreement as to the very meaning of the Conciliar texts themselves, a man must do his best to love God, love his neighbor, frequent the sacraments, and pray for the clergy, none of which require VII in any way.

Also, I  am not sure that anything said in the past by popes, about our obligation to "obey" them are fully applicable today. There is no parallel in the past to a world in which we get to know everything a pope says all day long. Surely it can't ALL be considered Church Teachings? What he says to some guy in a crowd, or in a homily in Sta. Marta, these are things average Joe had no access to and no business knowing in the past. In the past, all average Joe Catholic needed to know was exactly the same as today: Love God, love neighbor, frequent the sacraments,etc. No layman in the past had any business knowing anything that went on in Councils or in the lives of popes. And Pope Francis himself specifically makes ZERO statements about the Faith and Morals in any manner outside of the rhetoric common to homiletics and oratory in general, i.e. he avoids anything doctrinal like the plague. Most of his statements are about very general ideas related to charity, or are about things outside the fields of Faith and Morals, like financial speculation, or taxation, or what he thinks about large corporations.
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Re: Rorate Caeli: Many FI priests petitioning to be relieved of pontifical vows - by Maldon - 05-17-2014, 09:56 PM



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