Prophet Muhammed burning in hell?
#21
(08-24-2014, 11:54 PM)aquinas138 Wrote:
(08-24-2014, 11:27 PM)SinnerSanctified25 Wrote: And if indeed wicked men such as these get to Heaven, why should we then believe in the justice of God?

Because we believe in the mercy of God. I think the hope that Muhammad has been saved can reasonably be no more than a slim one, but God will do as He wills. Even had Muhammad himself personally killed every person that has been killed by his followers in the past 1400 years, and then killed 1000 times that number, that would not exhaust the infinite redemptive value of one drop of Christ's most precious blood. If God granted him the grace of repentance and he cooperated with that grace and accepted it, then salvation would be his. It may seem unfair to us for such a monster to be saved, but he was created in the same divine image as all men, and God loved him from his mother's womb as he loved us all; God will show mercy if He wills.

Now, with that said, there are absolutely no outward grounds for believing that Muhammad embraced Christianity, so such a hope is not really grounded in anything other than the limitless nature of God's mercy. Speaking for myself, I do not find it useful or even healthy to worry about who is numbered among the damned. Far better that I should pray the Good Lord to spare me, a sinner, from the scourges of his just anger and lead me and those who have been entrusted to my care to eternal beatitude. Perhaps I am a worse sinner than vMuhammad, since I profess to know Our Lord Jesus and dare to touch his Precious Body and Blood to my lips, yet I fall into sin every day. Lord Jesus Christ, mercy!

Best post I've read in a long time.  :clap:
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#22
(06-14-2014, 12:39 AM)Renatus Frater Wrote: This is quite scary.
Absolutely no credit should be given to it, the Bible forbids necromancy and all this sort of things. This can only bring problems.
Besides, while one can excuse Dante for using some poetic license, we should not engage in judging souls, as is written in the Epistle of Jude: “when the archangel Michael contended with the devil and disputed about the body of Moses, he did not dare to bring a condemnation of slander against him, but said, 'The Lord rebuke you!'”.
Spot on. Well said.
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#23
(08-24-2014, 11:54 PM)aquinas138 Wrote:
(08-24-2014, 11:27 PM)SinnerSanctified25 Wrote: And if indeed wicked men such as these get to Heaven, why should we then believe in the justice of God?

Because we believe in the mercy of God. I think the hope that Muhammad has been saved can reasonably be no more than a slim one, but God will do as He wills. Even had Muhammad himself personally killed every person that has been killed by his followers in the past 1400 years, and then killed 1000 times that number, that would not exhaust the infinite redemptive value of one drop of Christ's most precious blood. If God granted him the grace of repentance and he cooperated with that grace and accepted it, then salvation would be his. It may seem unfair to us for such a monster to be saved, but he was created in the same divine image as all men, and God loved him from his mother's womb as he loved us all; God will show mercy if He wills.

Now, with that said, there are absolutely no outward grounds for believing that Muhammad embraced Christianity, so such a hope is not really grounded in anything other than the limitless nature of God's mercy. Speaking for myself, I do not find it useful or even healthy to worry about who is numbered among the damned. Far better that I should pray the Good Lord to spare me, a sinner, from the scourges of his just anger and lead me and those who have been entrusted to my care to eternal beatitude. Perhaps I am a worse sinner than Muhammad, since I profess to know Our Lord Jesus and dare to touch his Precious Body and Blood to my lips, yet I fall into sin every day. Lord Jesus Christ, mercy!

This is off-topic from the OP, but I simply cannot believe God's mercy blocks out His justice!  Men like these are most likely damned.
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#24
(08-25-2014, 08:16 PM)SinnerSanctified25 Wrote: This is off-topic from the OP, but I simply cannot believe God's mercy blocks out His justice!  Men like these are most likely damned.

If we're only speaking of God's Justice, then we're ALL going to hell.  Even the grace of Baptism is a result of God's Mercy. None of us deserves salvation.
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#25
(08-25-2014, 08:16 PM)SinnerSanctified25 Wrote:
(08-24-2014, 11:54 PM)aquinas138 Wrote:
(08-24-2014, 11:27 PM)SinnerSanctified25 Wrote: And if indeed wicked men such as these get to Heaven, why should we then believe in the justice of God?

Because we believe in the mercy of God. I think the hope that Muhammad has been saved can reasonably be no more than a slim one, but God will do as He wills. Even had Muhammad himself personally killed every person that has been killed by his followers in the past 1400 years, and then killed 1000 times that number, that would not exhaust the infinite redemptive value of one drop of Christ's most precious blood. If God granted him the grace of repentance and he cooperated with that grace and accepted it, then salvation would be his. It may seem unfair to us for such a monster to be saved, but he was created in the same divine image as all men, and God loved him from his mother's womb as he loved us all; God will show mercy if He wills.

Now, with that said, there are absolutely no outward grounds for believing that Muhammad embraced Christianity, so such a hope is not really grounded in anything other than the limitless nature of God's mercy. Speaking for myself, I do not find it useful or even healthy to worry about who is numbered among the damned. Far better that I should pray the Good Lord to spare me, a sinner, from the scourges of his just anger and lead me and those who have been entrusted to my care to eternal beatitude. Perhaps I am a worse sinner than Muhammad, since I profess to know Our Lord Jesus and dare to touch his Precious Body and Blood to my lips, yet I fall into sin every day. Lord Jesus Christ, mercy!

This is off-topic from the OP, but I simply cannot believe God's mercy blocks out His justice!  Men like these are most likely damned.

I don't really disagree with you. God's mercy and His justice are not at odds with one another - they are really the same thing. I'm just saying that if we affirm that God's mercy is infinite, we have to actually mean that. He has required of us that we repent to be forgiven out sins; if there are no signs a person has done so, then one has to confess that the odds of salvation are greatly reduced, though not necessarily zero since there may have been repentance in a way known only to God. At the end of the day, whether Muhammad or Hitler or whoever is "burning in Hell" is of fairly little import - I have no say in the matter, and it doesn't change at all what God has commanded me to do.
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#26
(06-14-2014, 02:43 PM)PolishTrad Wrote: Well, you're right, I don't know how I could have forgotten :blush:. But still, I do recall reading elsewhere that the damned hate one another and us.

I believe that is because Hell is a vacuum to love; only hate can remain there.
"Punishment is justice for the unjust." Saint Augustine of Hippo
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#27
(08-26-2014, 12:37 AM)RyanPatrick Wrote:
(06-14-2014, 02:43 PM)PolishTrad Wrote: . But still, I do recall reading elsewhere that the damned hate one another and us.

I believe that is because Hell is a vacuum to love; only hate can remain there.
Rather like some forums I've been on in the past... and left.
Haters are everywhere.
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#28
(08-26-2014, 10:30 AM)MiriamB Wrote:
(08-26-2014, 12:37 AM)RyanPatrick Wrote:
(06-14-2014, 02:43 PM)PolishTrad Wrote: . But still, I do recall reading elsewhere that the damned hate one another and us.

I believe that is because Hell is a vacuum to love; only hate can remain there.
Rather like some forums I've been on in the past... and left.
Haters are everywhere.

Ha! I'm not sure about the theological quality of that simile, but I'll accept it because I know just what you mean.
"Punishment is justice for the unjust." Saint Augustine of Hippo
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