Can People struggle with SSA marry someone of the opposite gender?
#21
To be perfectly honest here, I'm thinking about me. I actually think that after I complete my PhD program (If I get into one), I could actually be a good husband and father. :)  Who knows... well I suppose God knows.  :grin:

Reply
#22
As the bisexual, I think I am qualified to know what I am attracted to, and what it actually means to be bisexual (not some random person on the internet).  Just because I don't act upon it doesn't mean I am not attracted nor any less bisexual.  A homosexual man or woman is still homosexual whether or not s/he lives a homosexual lifestyle, just as a heterosexual man or woman is no less heterosexual if s/he is chaste.

And here is what bisexuality actually means:

Bisexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior toward both males and females, and may also encompass romantic or sexual attraction to people of any gender identity or to a person irrespective of that person's biological sex or gender, which is sometimes termed pansexuality.

The term bisexuality is mainly used in the context of human attraction to denote romantic or sexual feelings toward both men and women, and the concept is one of the three main classifications of sexual orientation along with heterosexuality and homosexuality, which are each parts of the heterosexual–homosexual continuum. A bisexual identity does not necessarily equate to equal sexual attraction to both sexes; commonly, people who have a distinct but not exclusive sexual preference for one sex over the other also identify themselves as bisexual
Reply
#23
(07-10-2014, 11:14 PM)PatienceAndLove Wrote: As the bisexual, I think I am qualified to know what I am attracted to, and what it actually means to be bisexual (not some random person on the internet).  Just because I don't act upon it doesn't mean I am not attracted nor any less bisexual.  A homosexual man or woman is still homosexual whether or not s/he lives a homosexual lifestyle, just as a heterosexual man or woman is no less heterosexual if s/he is chaste.

And here is what bisexuality actually means:

Bisexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior toward both males and females, and may also encompass romantic or sexual attraction to people of any gender identity or to a person irrespective of that person's biological sex or gender, which is sometimes termed pansexuality.

The term bisexuality is mainly used in the context of human attraction to denote romantic or sexual feelings toward both men and women, and the concept is one of the three main classifications of sexual orientation along with heterosexuality and homosexuality, which are each parts of the heterosexual–homosexual continuum. A bisexual identity does not necessarily equate to equal sexual attraction to both sexes; commonly, people who have a distinct but not exclusive sexual preference for one sex over the other also identify themselves as bisexual

But that doesn't follow along lines of reason.  Etymology must not be ignored in favor of popular definitions.
Reply
#24
(07-12-2014, 02:21 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote:
(07-10-2014, 11:14 PM)PatienceAndLove Wrote: As the bisexual, I think I am qualified to know what I am attracted to, and what it actually means to be bisexual (not some random person on the internet).  Just because I don't act upon it doesn't mean I am not attracted nor any less bisexual.  A homosexual man or woman is still homosexual whether or not s/he lives a homosexual lifestyle, just as a heterosexual man or woman is no less heterosexual if s/he is chaste.

And here is what bisexuality actually means:

Bisexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior toward both males and females, and may also encompass romantic or sexual attraction to people of any gender identity or to a person irrespective of that person's biological sex or gender, which is sometimes termed pansexuality.

The term bisexuality is mainly used in the context of human attraction to denote romantic or sexual feelings toward both men and women, and the concept is one of the three main classifications of sexual orientation along with heterosexuality and homosexuality, which are each parts of the heterosexual–homosexual continuum. A bisexual identity does not necessarily equate to equal sexual attraction to both sexes; commonly, people who have a distinct but not exclusive sexual preference for one sex over the other also identify themselves as bisexual

But that doesn't follow along lines of reason.  Etymology must not be ignored in favor of popular definitions.

Popular definitions can unfortunately often be confusing, especially when the same term is used with different meanings.  In my experience the popular definition rarely makes a distinction between attraction and action.
Reply
#25
(07-12-2014, 07:45 PM)Sunset Wrote:
(07-12-2014, 02:21 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote:
(07-10-2014, 11:14 PM)PatienceAndLove Wrote: As the bisexual, I think I am qualified to know what I am attracted to, and what it actually means to be bisexual (not some random person on the internet).  Just because I don't act upon it doesn't mean I am not attracted nor any less bisexual.  A homosexual man or woman is still homosexual whether or not s/he lives a homosexual lifestyle, just as a heterosexual man or woman is no less heterosexual if s/he is chaste.

And here is what bisexuality actually means:

Bisexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior toward both males and females, and may also encompass romantic or sexual attraction to people of any gender identity or to a person irrespective of that person's biological sex or gender, which is sometimes termed pansexuality.

The term bisexuality is mainly used in the context of human attraction to denote romantic or sexual feelings toward both men and women, and the concept is one of the three main classifications of sexual orientation along with heterosexuality and homosexuality, which are each parts of the heterosexual–homosexual continuum. A bisexual identity does not necessarily equate to equal sexual attraction to both sexes; commonly, people who have a distinct but not exclusive sexual preference for one sex over the other also identify themselves as bisexual

But that doesn't follow along lines of reason.  Etymology must not be ignored in favor of popular definitions.

Popular definitions can unfortunately often be confusing, especially when the same term is used with different meanings.  In my experience the popular definition rarely makes a distinction between attraction and action.

Exactly.  We must sacrifice the use of popular terminology and it's ease of use, because using it compromises definition and doctrine.

As Catholics we are called to sacrifice, not compromise.
Reply
#26
(07-12-2014, 08:07 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote:
(07-12-2014, 07:45 PM)Sunset Wrote:
(07-12-2014, 02:21 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote:
(07-10-2014, 11:14 PM)PatienceAndLove Wrote: As the bisexual, I think I am qualified to know what I am attracted to, and what it actually means to be bisexual (not some random person on the internet).  Just because I don't act upon it doesn't mean I am not attracted nor any less bisexual.  A homosexual man or woman is still homosexual whether or not s/he lives a homosexual lifestyle, just as a heterosexual man or woman is no less heterosexual if s/he is chaste.

And here is what bisexuality actually means:

Bisexuality is romantic attraction, sexual attraction or sexual behavior toward both males and females, and may also encompass romantic or sexual attraction to people of any gender identity or to a person irrespective of that person's biological sex or gender, which is sometimes termed pansexuality.

The term bisexuality is mainly used in the context of human attraction to denote romantic or sexual feelings toward both men and women, and the concept is one of the three main classifications of sexual orientation along with heterosexuality and homosexuality, which are each parts of the heterosexual–homosexual continuum. A bisexual identity does not necessarily equate to equal sexual attraction to both sexes; commonly, people who have a distinct but not exclusive sexual preference for one sex over the other also identify themselves as bisexual

But that doesn't follow along lines of reason.  Etymology must not be ignored in favor of popular definitions.

Popular definitions can unfortunately often be confusing, especially when the same term is used with different meanings.  In my experience the popular definition rarely makes a distinction between attraction and action.

Exactly.  We must sacrifice the use of popular terminology and it's ease of use, because using it compromises definition and doctrine.

As Catholics we are called to sacrifice, not compromise.

I feel like you've just managed to jump topics in a major way.

Words are words.  They're not things that carry moral weight by themselves, only in their usage - and as long as things are clear why does it really matter what words are used?  How would you refer to attraction to both sexes, in a way that everyone would understand?
Reply
#27
(07-09-2014, 05:09 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: I don't think it's "bi" if you just have the attraction but don't go out and pursue it.  In that case, she wouldn't be bi, she'd just have same sex attraction.  "bi" implies she's going around living the lifestyle.

It simply doesn't imply that. The word describes one's orientation, just as the word "homosexual" does.  That's how the words are used by scientists, for ex. Being Catholic requires sacrifice, sure, but it doesn't require fighting over every piddly thing. And not wanting to fight over common word usage doesn't make one a "compromiser" of the Faith or anything. I mean, it'd be one thing if the differences in how the words are used automatically leads to a serious intellectual error (for ex., I'm big on not mixing up "supernatural" with "preternatural"), but that just isn't the case here.

It freaks me OUT how often (at least in trad circles) debates arise about what "homosexual" means when the word comes up (with some people actually, seriously saying things like "homosexuals don't exist!"), and I guess the same thing is going on with "bisexual," too.  Some folks insist on making the words indicate only people who act on their desires in spite of how most people, including behavioral scientists, use the words. But why? What's lost by not restricting those words to those particular meanings? What's gained by it? What words should be used to refer to just the orientations then? Why two words instead of one? And how much "action" would be required to fit whatever word should be used for, say, "a person who acts sexually on homosexual desires"? Kissing? Mutual masturbation? Frottage? Oral sex? Anal sex? You see where this sort of thing goes?

And how is it "etymologically incorrect" to use "homosexual" or "bisexual" to refer to psychological orientations? "Homo" means "same," and "bi" means "two." We all know what "sexual" means -- "relating to the instincts, physiological processes, and activities connected with physical attraction or intimate physical contact between individuals," according to the Oxford. So "instincts, physiological processes, and activities connected with physical attraction or intimate physical contact" with the "same sex" or "two sexes" -- where's the problem in terms of etymology?

Of all the things we Catholics have to seriously argue about and defend against, and given how much of that sort of thing there is and how adding yet another "talking point" to the list makes us come off as cantankerous cranks who just want to fight, of alllllllll the hills to die on, why, oh why, worry about the etymology of the words "homosexual" and "bisexual"?

 
Reply
#28
(07-13-2014, 04:57 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: Of all the things we Catholics have to seriously argue about and defend against, and given how much of that sort of thing there is and how adding yet another "talking point" to the list makes us come off as cantankerous cranks who just want to fight, of alllllllll the hills to die on, why, oh why, worry about the etymology of the words "homosexual" and "bisexual"?

Well said! :clap: :w2go:  We don't need to reinvent English here.
Reply
#29
Honestly, among Catholics (especially clergy), this is such a difficult thing.  There are different camps with this sort of word-meaning stuff.  Some think that if one calls ones self "gay" or "bi", one is living a sexually active lifestyle.  Then there are others that recognize this as identifying with a predisposition to a sinful lifestyle.  Then there are others who think that one can't possibly know one's sexual orientation/preferences unless one has had a sexual relationship in the past.  It's a difficult thing, because no one wants to give the wrong impression, but it can be difficult to give Father a mini lesson on sexual orientation identification in the confessional. ;)

I'm at the point where I really don't know what I am.  My own mom never believed I was "gay" when I told her, because I never dated guys or girls.  Yet people assume kids are heterosexuals until proven otherwise. 
Reply
#30
(07-13-2014, 07:53 AM)Fontevrault Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 04:57 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: Of all the things we Catholics have to seriously argue about and defend against, and given how much of that sort of thing there is and how adding yet another "talking point" to the list makes us come off as cantankerous cranks who just want to fight, of alllllllll the hills to die on, why, oh why, worry about the etymology of the words "homosexual" and "bisexual"?

Well said! :clap: :w2go:  We don't need to reinvent English here.

I think what LWRT is objecting to is the reinvention of the English language that has already been done by our enemies, and I agree with him that this slants the field against us. That said, I agree with Vox that it's not a hill worth dying on; we just have to play on this slanted field.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)