Can People struggle with SSA marry someone of the opposite gender?
#31
(07-13-2014, 12:17 PM)Dirigible Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 07:53 AM)Fontevrault Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 04:57 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: Of all the things we Catholics have to seriously argue about and defend against, and given how much of that sort of thing there is and how adding yet another "talking point" to the list makes us come off as cantankerous cranks who just want to fight, of alllllllll the hills to die on, why, oh why, worry about the etymology of the words "homosexual" and "bisexual"?

Well said! :clap: :w2go:  We don't need to reinvent English here.

I think what LWRT is objecting to is the reinvention of the English language that has already been done by our enemies, and I agree with him that this slants the field against us. That said, I agree with Vox that it's not a hill worth dying on; we just have to play on this slanted field.

I agree with the general idea that the secular world's wonky and abuses language, but am not seeing how it's so in this case. IOW, when did "homosexual" ever mean only "someone who has sex with members of his own sex --- not someone who is merely sexually attracted to members of his own sex"?

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#32
(07-13-2014, 08:22 AM)ServantofGod Wrote: Honestly, among Catholics (especially clergy), this is such a difficult thing.  There are different camps with this sort of word-meaning stuff.  Some think that if one calls ones self "gay" or "bi", one is living a sexually active lifestyle.  Then there are others that recognize this as identifying with a predisposition to a sinful lifestyle.  Then there are others who think that one can't possibly know one's sexual orientation/preferences unless one has had a sexual relationship in the past.  It's a difficult thing, because no one wants to give the wrong impression, but it can be difficult to give Father a mini lesson on sexual orientation identification in the confessional. ;)

I'm at the point where I really don't know what I am.  My own mom never believed I was "gay" when I told her, because I never dated guys or girls.  Yet people assume kids are heterosexuals until proven otherwise. 

In this line of thinking, anyone identifying at heterosexual is obviously predisposed to a sinful lifestyle (not attacking you, commenting on the various nonsense you described)

The definition thing is why I only see one confessor, unless my actions have forced me to seek a different confessor. My confessor is also my Spiritual Director, so that makes life easier-- for me at least.
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#33
(07-13-2014, 01:25 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 12:17 PM)Dirigible Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 07:53 AM)Fontevrault Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 04:57 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: Of all the things we Catholics have to seriously argue about and defend against, and given how much of that sort of thing there is and how adding yet another "talking point" to the list makes us come off as cantankerous cranks who just want to fight, of alllllllll the hills to die on, why, oh why, worry about the etymology of the words "homosexual" and "bisexual"?

Well said! :clap: :w2go:  We don't need to reinvent English here.

I think what LWRT is objecting to is the reinvention of the English language that has already been done by our enemies, and I agree with him that this slants the field against us. That said, I agree with Vox that it's not a hill worth dying on; we just have to play on this slanted field.

I agree with the general idea that the secular world's wonky and abuses language, but am not seeing how it's so in this case. IOW, when did "homosexual" ever mean only "someone who has sex with members of his own sex --- not someone who is merely sexually attracted to members of his own sex"?

Exactly!  If you talk to Catholics who are fighting their SSA, they will still tell you they are homosexual- bc that is why their sexual attraction lies.  That is their cross.  If one cannot fully express one's sexuality, one cannot overcome it.  That's like going into battle half-cocked, drunk, and with a dagger. 

Until you can look at your sin and call it by name, you cannot fight it.
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#34
(07-14-2014, 04:11 AM)PatienceAndLove Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 01:25 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 12:17 PM)Dirigible Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 07:53 AM)Fontevrault Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 04:57 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: Of all the things we Catholics have to seriously argue about and defend against, and given how much of that sort of thing there is and how adding yet another "talking point" to the list makes us come off as cantankerous cranks who just want to fight, of alllllllll the hills to die on, why, oh why, worry about the etymology of the words "homosexual" and "bisexual"?

Well said! :clap: :w2go:  We don't need to reinvent English here.

I think what LWRT is objecting to is the reinvention of the English language that has already been done by our enemies, and I agree with him that this slants the field against us. That said, I agree with Vox that it's not a hill worth dying on; we just have to play on this slanted field.

I agree with the general idea that the secular world's wonky and abuses language, but am not seeing how it's so in this case. IOW, when did "homosexual" ever mean only "someone who has sex with members of his own sex --- not someone who is merely sexually attracted to members of his own sex"?

Exactly!  If you talk to Catholics who are fighting their SSA, they will still tell you they are homosexual- bc that is why their sexual attraction lies.  That is their cross.  If one cannot fully express one's sexuality, one cannot overcome it.  That's like going into battle half-cocked, drunk, and with a dagger. 

Until you can look at your sin and call it by name, you cannot fight it.

My problem with this is that the way "homosexual" is used makes it blur the line between the sinful action and the uncontrollable attraction.
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#35
(07-14-2014, 06:01 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: My problem with this is that the way "homosexual" is used makes it blur the line between the sinful action and the uncontrollable attraction.

But it doesn't "blur the line" any more than "Italian" "blurs the line" between folks from Lazio and folks from Campania. If someone else needs to know whether someone sins or not, the word "active" can be added or something. (and which word should someone who fights against SSA but who caved in once last week after 3 years of chastity? why should someone have to "out himself" as to his sins, which would be the case if one word meant, exclusively, "chaste person with SSA"? We don't have separate words for chaste heteros and promiscuous ones but add words that'd apply to both orientations -- e.g., "chaste," "promiscuous," "whore," "gadabout," etc.)



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#36
(07-14-2014, 06:01 AM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote:
(07-14-2014, 04:11 AM)PatienceAndLove Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 01:25 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 12:17 PM)Dirigible Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 07:53 AM)Fontevrault Wrote:
(07-13-2014, 04:57 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote: Of all the things we Catholics have to seriously argue about and defend against, and given how much of that sort of thing there is and how adding yet another "talking point" to the list makes us come off as cantankerous cranks who just want to fight, of alllllllll the hills to die on, why, oh why, worry about the etymology of the words "homosexual" and "bisexual"?

Well said! :clap: :w2go:  We don't need to reinvent English here.

I think what LWRT is objecting to is the reinvention of the English language that has already been done by our enemies, and I agree with him that this slants the field against us. That said, I agree with Vox that it's not a hill worth dying on; we just have to play on this slanted field.

I agree with the general idea that the secular world's wonky and abuses language, but am not seeing how it's so in this case. IOW, when did "homosexual" ever mean only "someone who has sex with members of his own sex --- not someone who is merely sexually attracted to members of his own sex"?

Exactly!  If you talk to Catholics who are fighting their SSA, they will still tell you they are homosexual- bc that is why their sexual attraction lies.  That is their cross.  If one cannot fully express one's sexuality, one cannot overcome it.  That's like going into battle half-cocked, drunk, and with a dagger. 

Until you can look at your sin and call it by name, you cannot fight it.

My problem with this is that the way "homosexual" is used makes it blur the line between the sinful action and the uncontrollable attraction.

Um.... no it doesn't. You are taking your own opinions and imposing them on a word.  The context of the word in conversation may mean that a heteroperson is whoring around and the context of the word in conversation may mean that a homosexual person is struggling everyday.

Take your high horse elsewhere
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#37
(07-14-2014, 04:11 AM)PatienceAndLove Wrote: Exactly!  If you talk to Catholics who are fighting their SSA, they will still tell you they are homosexual- bc that is why their sexual attraction lies.  That is their cross.  If one cannot fully express one's sexuality, one cannot overcome it.  That's like going into battle half-cocked, drunk, and with a dagger. 

Until you can look at your sin and call it by name, you cannot fight it.

Definitely.  I was attracted to girls far before I even really understood what lesbians were.  I can't say that the avoidance did me any favors.  Thankfully sexuality is not a strong temptation for me, so I can't say it's much of a struggle now.
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#38
(07-15-2014, 11:38 PM)Sunset Wrote:
(07-14-2014, 04:11 AM)PatienceAndLove Wrote: Exactly!  If you talk to Catholics who are fighting their SSA, they will still tell you they are homosexual- bc that is why their sexual attraction lies.  That is their cross.  If one cannot fully express one's sexuality, one cannot overcome it.  That's like going into battle half-cocked, drunk, and with a dagger. 

Until you can look at your sin and call it by name, you cannot fight it.

Definitely.  I was attracted to girls far before I even really understood what lesbians were.  I can't say that the avoidance did me any favors.  Thankfully sexuality is not a strong temptation for me, so I can't say it's much of a struggle now.
You, dear lady, are very lucky.  God gave me an incredibly high sex drive and insane amounts of sexual desire.  It is, at the very least, an hourly struggle- not just to be tempted by others, but to be tempted by myself. That sounds very vain, but I am trying to have at least a little bit of tact (surprising, I know, given my venomous answers previously). I wish it were not such a strong temptation for me
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#39
Here's the thing.  You tell someone you're both Catholic and a homosexual, they're going to, right away, conclude you *are* active in the lifestyle, not merely attracted to the same sex.
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#40
(07-16-2014, 12:17 PM)LoneWolfRadTrad Wrote: Here's the thing.  You tell someone you're both Catholic and a homosexual, they're going to, right away, conclude you *are* active in the lifestyle, not merely attracted to the same sex.

Wouldn't that be the sin of rash judgment?
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