Disturbing yet unsurprising. Cardinal Burke being removed.
(09-18-2014, 04:59 PM)Geographer Wrote:
(09-18-2014, 12:04 PM)maldon Wrote: It's not your club membership that makes a difference to your salvation, except the One Club, the Catholic Church, which has a head, the Pope, and bishops and priests under him. That's it. Thus the choice is not between Pope Francis and SSPX: it is between the Catholic Church and anything else.
Now, the mere fact that Pope Francis is the Pope of the Catholic Church does not at all mean that he is good, holy, even decent. He could be (and I think he is) clueless, misguided, and destructive. He also has zero effect on my life as a Catholic, because where I go to church the priest is FSSP, the doctrine perfect, the liturgy perfect. So unless you are affected by Pope Francis in some way, I suggest you stay wherever you are (including if you already are with the SSPX) and not make radical changes in your 'status' one way or another just because you have a bad pope and all the bad bishops are getting red hats, and all the good guys are getting farmed out. This kind of thing has happened before and will, sadly, happen again in the history of the Church. So, the real choice I think is Catholic Church and Sede. The rest is just people trying to use teh fact of a bad pope to make changes that they feel badly about for some other reason.
But there is one good thing in this: there is no more illusion of peace and unity. Lines are being drawn in the sand in Rome. Finally.

I agree with you in principle as we also attend the TLM said by a diocese priest. However, I pose this question to you and the other posters here: At what point would you consider separating  yourself from the church? Putting it another way, at what point would the Catholic church descend into error and cease to be the Catholic church? I realize that is in the eyes of the beholder and could be argued several ways. My wife and I were discussing the problems in the church, and came to the conclusion that we would attend the SSPX  if the Pope were to snap his fingers and declare SP null and invalid. In our minds, the church at that point would have crossed an important line, and thus would lack the moral authority to compel us to attend the NO.  I pose this question only because we, i.e. the Traditional community, may be faced with that horrible choice.

I also agree with maldon, and this shows the profundity of my confusion, since I also agree with tradprof.
I think this Synod could produce effects very close to us all. For instance, we might see adulterous relations being blessed by the Church. This is not merely a question of legalism or discipline, but as Robert Spaemann pointed out in an article in FirstThings, to allow communion to people in such relationships assumes a very strange theological principle, and to bless such relationships is plainly offensive, to the partner abandoned and a sacrilege.
There's also the more drastic changes that could occur if the more radical Jacobins have their way: gay marriage, blessing of gays, etc.
The strong point of the SSPX is that they seem capable of stubbornly holding to the traditions. And while some diocesans or other groups can be very traditional, will they be able to support the pressure?

Frankly, I think we need a bit of the virility of Easterners. Even bishops should be accountable to the truth.

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Re: Disturbing yet unsurprising. Cardinal Burke being removed. - by Renatus Frater - 09-18-2014, 05:42 PM

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