Disturbing yet unsurprising. Cardinal Burke being removed.
Hey Geographer,
So, in answer to your question: "At what point would you consider separating  yourself from the church?" I can only answer: "Never". To separate myself from the Church is the only way I can sort of guarantee Hell.  The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ. To separate myself from the Church is to choose mortal sin forever. Can't do it, no matter how stink it smells in the Church. And yes, it REALLY stinks now. But let's go to your next question, which was:
"Putting it another way, at what point would the Catholic church descend into error and cease to be the Catholic church?" The Catholic Church has never, can never, and will never descend into error. The gates of Hell shall not prevail against her.

That being said, we can have evil popes, evil bishops, evil people. When the Church defines a new dogma to be believed universally by all as a revealed truth, and it is in contradiction with the traditional faith, we will have to ask ourselves where the heck the Church is. But we are very very very far from this. We are in no practical danger of this at all. The highest authorities in the Church today are allergic to dogma, are allergic to defining anything, are allergic to belief, are allergic to phrases live "revealed" and "truth". We are nowhere near this. What we have is a bunch of idiots (at best) running the Vatican. Very old men with very bad ideas and not a lot of time left in life.

The Pope can snap his fingers and make SP invalid. The only thing with more authority in such legal matters than a previous pope is a current pope. But this pope will not do this. To begin with, he would have to actually sit down and READ SP, and quite frankly I don't think he would. The Pope can most certainly legislate that one can only attend the NO. He can. Were he to do something so asinine it would make him an ass, but it would not mean that the Church had defected somehow. It would mean our Church leaders are asses. We would have to sit it out, wait till they die off, and bring it back again.

I am no authority on the SSPX, but I find it odd that some are using the SSPX in a sort of "not the Catholic Church" sort of way. The SSPX is a Catholic organization in an canonically irregular, ambiguous or illicit situation. But they are in the Catholic Church. If the Catholic-Church-as-we-know-it is utterly wrong, the SSPX would be as wrong as the rest of us. The only real alternative is Sedevacantism, because there can only be one Church, with one hierarchy, and that hierarchy must be obeyed.

Renatus, you said, "The strong point of the SSPX is that they seem capable of stubbornly holding to the traditions. And while some diocesans or other groups can be very traditional, will they be able to support the pressure?" To this I say bravo for the individuals of the SSPX who live like this, but remember, it is INDIVIDUALS that are "stubbornly holding to the traditions," not organizations. The SSPX has recently suffered its own fracture from inner dissension. I don't know who is right or wrong; I point it out because it shows that inside of any organization there are individuals doing the right thing (whatever that may be in the SSPX case) and individuals in the same organization doing the wrong thing. So it is not the organization that matters: it is YOU. You and I have to live our Catholic lives to the fullest extent of which we are capable. You and I have to hold to the Faith of our Fathers, whether the Pope is a good one or a bad one. Either way, he is not here in my house, in my parish, in my country. My real problem is the priest that says mass for me. Is he a heretic? Will good diocesan and FSSP and ICK and all the many good trad groups out there suddenly, corporately, oblige their members to just accept heresy?? No way. Especially if we do our part.

I will add this weird part from myself. Don't you get an eerie feeling that if ever there was a time NOT to be in the Vatican and the Curia that this was that time? Don't you have the funny feeling that Burke's exit is actually a good thing for Burke? I confess I have that feeling. I find it very odd that at the same time that Europe is at its weakest, and radical Islam at its strongest, and ISIS begging for the opportunity to nuke St. Peter's, and the men ascending in the power-structure of the Vatican are older and older and more dumb and asinine, and corrupt, Burke, relatively young, may very well be getting his life saved, or his reputation saved, by being disassociated from those fellows. And as I said earlier, the truly beautiful part about this is that the kid gloves are FINALLY off. No more polite, diplomatic wars. From now on it will be the real deal kind of fight, the kind in which each side will seek the extinction of the other side. But we have youth on our side. Trads have youth, young priests, a love for the Church that will make them not abandon Her when she needs rescuing. The old, modernist, leftist guard has no future, having no spiritual children. You want to know what else I find eerie. I keep hearing Our Lady of Akita's words, "bishop against bishop, cardinal against cardinal". That's where we are.

So no, I don't think we will ever have to "jump ship". We will have to seek out trad parishes and good NO parishes (yes, they too exist), and get our sacraments there, and the rest is up to us to do. We are never allowed to jump off this ship. We stay and fight on deck.

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Re: Disturbing yet unsurprising. Cardinal Burke being removed. - by Maldon - 09-18-2014, 11:15 PM

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