Studying Islam
#21
Well I am your guy if you're looking for information on Islam. I spent a lot of time in the Middle East, have read all the Islamic texts, taken university courses on Islamic law and Islamic hadith, and can read/write in Arabic (although im still learning).

If you really wanna know about Islam, the Quran is NOT the place to start. Why? Because you can read the entire Quran and not have a single clue what Islam is or what Muhammad was all about. The Quran is basically just poetry. If you wanna know about Islam, you need to read the Siraah (Biography of Muhammad). Once you read the Siraah you will see just what a mass-murdering pathological monster Muhammad really was.

Regarding Sufism I think you are really wasting your time. Sufism is NOT real Islam, its practices appear nowhere in any Islamic text. Furthermore there are hundreds of different kinds of Sufism.

Read the Siraah, you will be amazed at just how bad Muhammad really was.
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#22
Welcome to FishEaters, cbd94. I remember seeing you from time to time on PalTalk, which is funny since FishEaters has its origins in the forum owner's experience on PalTalk, as described in this post:

http://www.fisheaters.com/forums/index.p...sg33932657

I hope you stick around, as I know that you have a lot to share when it comes to discussing Islam from the Catholic perspective, as well as other subjects.
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#23
(10-04-2014, 12:20 AM)Cyriacus Wrote: Welcome to FishEaters, cbd94. I remember seeing you from time to time on PalTalk, which is funny since FishEaters has its origins in the forum owner's experience on PalTalk, as described in this post:

http://www.fisheaters.com/forums/index.p...sg33932657

I hope you stick around, as I know that you have a lot to share when it comes to discussing Islam from the Catholic perspective, as well as other subjects.

Thank you,

I browse this forum from time to time, finally decided to set up an account after I was banned from the Catholic Answers forum.
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#24
(10-04-2014, 01:34 PM)cbd94 Wrote: I browse this forum from time to time, finally decided to set up an account after I was banned from the Catholic Answers forum.

Part of the origin story of many a Fishie!  :LOL:
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#25
How about the Constitution of Medina.
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#26
(10-09-2014, 01:40 AM)Poche Wrote: How about the Constitution of Medina.

what about it?
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#27
(10-09-2014, 03:08 PM)cbd94 Wrote:
(10-09-2014, 01:40 AM)Poche Wrote: How about the Constitution of Medina.

what about it?
The Constitution of Medina (Arabic: دستور المدينة‎, Dastūr ul-Madīnah or صحيفة المدينة Ṣaḥīfat ul-Madīnah), also known as the Charter of Medina, was drafted by the Islamic prophet Muhammad. It constituted a formal agreement between Muhammad and all of the significant tribes and families of Yathrib (later known as Medina), including Muslims, Jews, Christians[1] and pagans.[2][3] This constitution formed the basis of the first Islamic state. The document was created to bring to an end the bitter inter-tribal fighting between the clans of the Aws (Aus) and Khazraj within Medina. To this effect it instituted a number of rights and responsibilities for the Muslim, Jewish, Christian and pagan communities of Medina bringing them within the fold of one community—the Ummah.[4]

The precise dating of the Constitution of Medina is uncertain, but generally scholars agree it was written shortly after the Hijra (622).[5] It effectively established the first Islamic state. The Constitution established: the security of the community, religious freedoms, the role of Medina as a haram or sacred place (barring all violence and weapons), the security of women, stable tribal relations within Medina, a tax system for supporting the community in time of conflict, parameters for exogenous political alliances, a system for granting protection of individuals, a judicial system for resolving disputes, and also regulated the paying of blood money (the payment between families or tribes for the slaying of an individual in lieu of lex talionis).

Background[edit]In Muhammad's last years in Mecca, a delegation from Medina, consisting of the representatives of the twelve important clans of Medina, invited him as a neutral outsider to Medina to serve as the chief arbitrator for the entire community.[6][7] There was fighting in Medina mainly involving its pagan and Jewish inhabitants for around a hundred years before 620. The recurring slaughters and disagreements over the resulting claims, especially after the battle of Bu'ath in which all the clans were involved, made it obvious to them that the tribal conceptions of blood-feud and an eye for an eye were no longer workable unless there was one man with authority to adjudicate in disputed cases.[6] The delegation from Medina pledged themselves and their fellow-citizens to accept Muhammad into their community and physically protect him as one of themselves.[8]

After emigration to Medina, Muhammad drafted the Constitution of Medina, "establishing a kind of alliance or federation" among the eight Medinan tribes and Muslim emigrants from Mecca, which specified the rights and duties of all citizens and the relationship of the different communities in Medina (including that of the Muslim community to other communities, specifically the Jews and other "Peoples of the Book").[6]

Sources[edit]Scholars do not possess the original document but rather a number of versions can be found in early Muslim sources. The most widely read version of the Constitution is found in the pages of Ibn Ishaq's Sirah Rasul Allah (see Wikisource), while alternative copies are located in Sayyid al-Nas and Abu ‘Ubayd's Kitab al-Amwal. Most scholars accept the authenticity of the document.

Montgomery Watt suggests that the constitution must have been written in the early Medinan period. He supports his view by arguing that had the document been drafted later, it would have had a favorable attitude towards Quraysh, and given Muhammad a prominent place. Hubert Grimme believes the Constitution was drafted in the post-Badr period, while Cetani argues that the document was complete before the Battle of Badr.[9]

According to RB Serjeant, verses 101–4 of sura 3 of the Qur'an make reference to the Constitution. He proposes that this section of the Qur'an underwent recension (a hypothesis first proposed by Richard Bell). In its first recension, this text sanctioned the establishment of a confederation. In its second, it admonished the Aws and Khazraj to abide by their treaty. In its third, in conjunction with the proceeding verses, it is an encouragement of Muhammad's adherents to face the Meccan forces they eventually fought at Uhud. He states that even if this proposal of three recensions be unacceptable, it must be affirmed that these verses make reference to the two different treaties.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina
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#28
(10-03-2014, 12:42 PM)cbd94 Wrote: If you really wanna know about Islam, the Quran is NOT the place to start. Why? Because you can read the entire Quran and not have a single clue what Islam is or what Muhammad was all about. The Quran is basically just poetry. If you wanna know about Islam, you need to read the Siraah (Biography of Muhammad). Once you read the Siraah you will see just what a mass-murdering pathological monster Muhammad really was.

My experience has been quite different. Reading the Qur'an with traditional commentaries has taught me a lot about Islam and its origins.

The biographies are all written later, at a time when the Muslim community is forming itself and developing its identity. Scholars seriously question the accuracy of them. They may have influenced the formation of Islam profoundly, but at this stage I am not too interested in them. Rather, my focus at the moment is twofold: 1) to understand the Qur'an and the very beginnings of Islam, and 2) to understand the development of Sufism, as that is the form of Islam I encounter most, as I stated before. I have studied Islam before in university (though the focus there was on the political and "legal" side of Islam), so I have a good context to frame this current study.

(10-03-2014, 12:42 PM)cbd94 Wrote: Regarding Sufism I think you are really wasting your time. Sufism is NOT real Islam, its practices appear nowhere in any Islamic text. Furthermore there are hundreds of different kinds of Sufism.

It is "real" Islam for millions of Muslims, particularly in South Asia (and it is South Asian Muslims I primarily encounter). I also addressed this earlier:

(09-21-2014, 02:08 PM)ecclesiastes Wrote: Sure. What often irritates me, though, is that people will argue that Islam is *always* violent and out to destroy non-Muslims, and if they somehow don't preach this they are not being real Muslims, or are being dishonest. I would rather let Muslims decide what Islam is. I am not going to tell the Sufis at the mosque around the corner from my house that they have misinterpreted Islam, because I am not a Muslim and therefore I am not the person to make Islamic theological and hermeneutical judgments. Just as I don't want Muslims to tell Catholics (or Protestants, for that matter) that they are not real Christians because of X, Y, or Z. These are theological claims, generally grounded in a particular reading of sacred texts, and belong to an insider discourse.

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#29
(10-10-2014, 03:31 AM)ecclesiastes Wrote:
(10-03-2014, 12:42 PM)cbd94 Wrote: If you really wanna know about Islam, the Quran is NOT the place to start. Why? Because you can read the entire Quran and not have a single clue what Islam is or what Muhammad was all about. The Quran is basically just poetry. If you wanna know about Islam, you need to read the Siraah (Biography of Muhammad). Once you read the Siraah you will see just what a mass-murdering pathological monster Muhammad really was.

My experience has been quite different. Reading the Qur'an with traditional commentaries has taught me a lot about Islam and its origins.

The biographies are all written later, at a time when the Muslim community is forming itself and developing its identity. Scholars seriously question the accuracy of them. They may have influenced the formation of Islam profoundly, but at this stage I am not too interested in them. Rather, my focus at the moment is twofold: 1) to understand the Qur'an and the very beginnings of Islam, and 2) to understand the development of Sufism, as that is the form of Islam I encounter most, as I stated before. I have studied Islam before in university (though the focus there was on the political and "legal" side of Islam), so I have a good context to frame this current study.

(10-03-2014, 12:42 PM)cbd94 Wrote: Regarding Sufism I think you are really wasting your time. Sufism is NOT real Islam, its practices appear nowhere in any Islamic text. Furthermore there are hundreds of different kinds of Sufism.

It is "real" Islam for millions of Muslims, particularly in South Asia (and it is South Asian Muslims I primarily encounter). I also addressed this earlier:

(09-21-2014, 02:08 PM)ecclesiastes Wrote: Sure. What often irritates me, though, is that people will argue that Islam is *always* violent and out to destroy non-Muslims, and if they somehow don't preach this they are not being real Muslims, or are being dishonest. I would rather let Muslims decide what Islam is. I am not going to tell the Sufis at the mosque around the corner from my house that they have misinterpreted Islam, because I am not a Muslim and therefore I am not the person to make Islamic theological and hermeneutical judgments. Just as I don't want Muslims to tell Catholics (or Protestants, for that matter) that they are not real Christians because of X, Y, or Z. These are theological claims, generally grounded in a particular reading of sacred texts, and belong to an insider discourse.

Remember that the commentaries on the Quran you are reading are just as old if not older than the Seerah, which is the biography of Mohammad. Regardless of whether or not you consider the biography of Mohammad to be authentic, Muslims accept it to be authentic and therefore is the core of Islam.
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#30
It has been my observation that Muslims interpret the Coran in the same manner that we Catholics interpret the Bible. 
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