Looking for a Specific Kind of Bible Translation
#1
So in his homily yesterday, my priest quoted Daniel Harrington, S.J. as saying that the phrase "Tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the Kingdom of Heaven before you [elders and scribes]" literally meant "Tax collectors and prostitutes are pushing ahead of you into the Kingdom of Heaven" in the original Greek. I was fascinated by this, because the latter phrase conveys an eagerness and fervor, a single-mindedness that completely changed my understanding of the passage. The tax-collectors and prostitutes weren't just going in first- they were, in their eagerness and commitment, doing whatever it took to get in as soon as possible, even to the point of disregarding decorum.

I want a translation that can give me more of this deep understanding. Where can I find it?
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#2
"Tax collectors and prostitutes are pushing ahead of you into the Kingdom of Heaven

I do not know specifically the bible translation that was used. I looked through various bible translations both Catholic and non-Catholic and did not find it. The common bible translation that I saw translate it as follows

Douay Rheims:

Quote:Which of the two did the father's will? They say to him: The first. Jesus saith to them: Amen, I say to you, that the publicans and the harlots shall go into the kingdom of God before you.

NAB

Quote:Which of the two did his father’s will?” They answered, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Amen, I say to you, tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you.

Ronald Knox Bible

Quote:Which of the two carried out his father’s will? The first, they said. And Jesus said to them, Believe me, the publicans and the harlots are further on the road to God’s kingdom than you.

Quote:Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said, "The first." Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you

King James

Quote:Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Here is the Haydock Commentary:

Quote:Witham) --- By these two sons are to be understood, says St. Chrysostom, the Gentiles and the Jewish people; the latter our Redeemer wishes to make sensible of their own great ingratitude, and of the ready obedience of the cast-off Gentiles. For they having never heard the law, nor promised obedience have still shewn their submission by their works; whereas the Jews, after promising to obey the voice of God, had neglected the performance. (Hom. lxviii.)

Although I do not know the actual biblical translation that is quoted from in the OP I think it does make sense, just as the other translations do also. It was the pride of the Pharisees and Scribes that led them to reject the call to conversion of Saint John the Baptist and ultimately of Jesus Christ. The gentiles in the other hand accepted the sins which they had committed and thus humbled themselves by doing this.

I think you can extend this to our times. Not all of us come to the knowledge of the faith at the same time. Some of us are cradle Catholics, others convert later in their life, and some even don't convert until they have a death bed conversion. Whatever the case may be, the reality is that we are all sinners in the eyes of God, and we all fall short of His grace.
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#3
The Greek word at play is proagō (προάγω); in classical Greek with a direct object (as it has in the verse) it didn't seem to have that meaning; intransitively, it meant to "lead the way, go before" (as in "the preceding discourse").  In Koine it acquired a transitive use of this meaning, so that it simply means "to precede, go before." Thus Latin praecedent and Syriac qādmīn, both of which simply mean "to precede." I think the "pushing forward" might not be quite correct, or rather putting too fine a point on it, perhaps by association with English "proactive," which shares some common etymological roots.
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#4
Hi, my name is Mike and I am currently working on a book called, 'How to Debate Atheists.' I have completed the first three chapters and would appreciate any feedback.
http://mikemanea.com/unapologetics/how-t...-atheists/
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#5
(10-14-2014, 03:34 AM)MikeManea Wrote: Hi, my name is Mike and I am currently working on a book called, 'How to Debate Atheists.' I have completed the first three chapters and would appreciate any feedback.
http://mikemanea.com/unapologetics/how-t...-atheists/

Start a thread about your endeavor and perhaps some more intelligent Fishies here in the Tank could help you.

Neopelagianus
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#6
That doesn't sound like the homilist was quoting a particular translation. Rather, it sounds like he was drawing on the Greek phrasing itself (correctly or incorrectly) to draw out an additional layer meaning not captured in the common English translations.

One sees this same technique, for instance, in sermons on Christ's teaching about the Eucharist. Apparently (I know nothing of Greek) the word commonly translated as "eat" ("...unless one eat the flesh of the Son of Man...") carries a sense of "masticate" or "gnaw." Because English doesn't have a common word that carries a sense of "ingest" together with a sense of "chew," we render the word "eat," but we lose something in the process. Sounds like the same thing here.
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#7
The translation will always be lacking; what you want are good commentaries to flesh out what is lacking due to the translation.

Look for Bibles with trustworthy commentaries based off the Latin and Greek. Whenever I've used the Orthodox Study Bible, I've always found fresh insights: http://www.amazon.com/The-Orthodox-Study...0718003594

Look up commentaries by the Fathers as well; they will look at the specific words used and draw out the theological depths. The Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture series is good. The Ignatius Press Study Bibles are good.
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