Synod on the Family
#21
(10-05-2014, 03:58 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: Abortion and contraception might get a nod and a wink from some Orthodox priests and hierarchs but neither were historically considered acceptable and most traditional/ conservative Orthodox would not be supportive of either. As far as divorce and remarriage goes, the  position of the Orthodox is justified based on their own reading of scripture and tradition but some of the complete laxity and nonchalance about the issue is actually more a modern phenomenon.


Well contraception is allowed on the same grounds NFP is allowed. I will say for all of the raging about ABC there is no patristic support for NFP either. On the issue of abortion the teaching of the Orthodox Church is as clear as day. There is no daylight at all between Catholic and Orthodox teaching on that question.
Reply
#22
(10-05-2014, 04:06 PM)Silouan Wrote:
(10-05-2014, 03:58 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: Abortion and contraception might get a nod and a wink from some Orthodox priests and hierarchs but neither were historically considered acceptable and most traditional/ conservative Orthodox would not be supportive of either. As far as divorce and remarriage goes, the  position of the Orthodox is justified based on their own reading of scripture and tradition but some of the complete laxity and nonchalance about the issue is actually more a modern phenomenon.


Well contraception is allowed on the same grounds NFP is allowed. I will say for all of the raging about ABC there is no patristic support for NFP either. On the issue of abortion the teaching of the Orthodox Church is as clear as day. There is no daylight at all between Catholic and Orthodox teaching on that question.


Well to be fair NFP is itself a controversial issue amongst Catholics.
Reply
#23
(10-05-2014, 04:09 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote:
(10-05-2014, 04:06 PM)Silouan Wrote:
(10-05-2014, 03:58 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: Abortion and contraception might get a nod and a wink from some Orthodox priests and hierarchs but neither were historically considered acceptable and most traditional/ conservative Orthodox would not be supportive of either. As far as divorce and remarriage goes, the  position of the Orthodox is justified based on their own reading of scripture and tradition but some of the complete laxity and nonchalance about the issue is actually more a modern phenomenon.


Well contraception is allowed on the same grounds NFP is allowed. I will say for all of the raging about ABC there is no patristic support for NFP either. On the issue of abortion the teaching of the Orthodox Church is as clear as day. There is no daylight at all between Catholic and Orthodox teaching on that question.


Well to be fair NFP is itself a controversial issue amongst Catholics.


That it is especially among traditionalist.
Reply
#24
(10-05-2014, 10:40 AM)Renatus Frater Wrote: So I've heard Paul Vi will be beatified at the end of the Synod. Is this true?
This is BS! What's going on, come on! Who has a devotion to Pope Paul VI? He's the Pope both liberals and conservatives don't like.

I've also read chunks of the Pope's homily (from a secular media news), and its the typical Bergoglian stuff, you know "we are not here to discuss bright ideas and so on" (so basically admitting that Kasper is not bright and his ideas are dumb -- but, you know, maybe dumb ideas are good for the people, like dumb Masses proved to be so great).

How about we offer our sacrifices for this Synod today? I think I'll do that this and next week -- hoping, of course, its not just a farce; but anyway, the Holy Spirit can use farces to do good, so, no problem there (for God).

and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profiteth me nothing.

Reply
#25
(10-05-2014, 03:58 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote: Abortion and contraception might get a nod and a wink from some Orthodox priests and hierarchs but neither were historically considered acceptable and most traditional/ conservative Orthodox would not be supportive of either.
So where is this golden unanimity that was supposed to come from decentralization?


Quote:As far as divorce and remarriage goes, the  position of the Orthodox is justified based on their own reading of scripture and tradition
:crazy:

You can't be serious??

So Kasper's position too is justified based on 'his own reading of scripture and tradition'?  :scratchinghead:

Quote:some of the complete laxity and nonchalance about the issue is actually more a modern phenomenon.
So where is this magical cure of heresies via decentralization?

Like I said the 'heresies' of Kasper have been long-accepted orthodoxies among the East. Your defence is that they had them before Kasper, thereby making them ok?? If Kasper is a heretic then the Orthodox ARE HERETICS. clear and simple. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander. You aren't allowed to admire the orthodox but bewail Kasper.

Quote:Is the divorce/remarriage thing any better just because it's called an "annulment" and justified through legalistic verbiage in the Roman Catholic Church?
No. Surely enough. But I would say that's a problem internal to the Church, a wrinkle to resolve. Admiring divorce-loving compromisers, and reviling the divorce-loving Roman cardinal, MAKES NO SENSE.
Reply
#26
(10-05-2014, 04:44 PM)1seeker Wrote: So where is this golden unanimity that was supposed to come from decentralization?



I'm not sure I follow that question. Surely you don't expect every single person to believe exactly the same thing without exception? That doesn't make any sense. Being in the Church doesn't mean you're not longer a human being.




(10-05-2014, 04:44 PM)1seeker Wrote: You can't be serious??

So Kasper's position too is justified based on 'his own reading of scripture and tradition'?  :scratchinghead:


Well everyone has a "reading" of Scripture and Tradition. What is folly is trying to look back over a millennium and to formulate a teaching (or liturgy for that matter). Tradition is lived and practiced and in the case of economia for remarried persons the teaching of the Orthodox Churches have been consistent. I suppose you can try and make the case they have been consitently wrong but if you do you condemn yourself as well because the same teaching existed in the Catholic Church during the first millennium.


Reply
#27
(10-05-2014, 05:06 PM)Silouan Wrote:
(10-05-2014, 04:44 PM)1seeker Wrote: So Kasper's position too is justified based on 'his own reading of scripture and tradition'?

Well everyone has a "reading" of Scripture and Tradition.

You didn't answer the question.
Reply
#28
(10-05-2014, 05:21 PM)1seeker Wrote:
(10-05-2014, 05:06 PM)Silouan Wrote:
(10-05-2014, 04:44 PM)1seeker Wrote: So Kasper's position too is justified based on 'his own reading of scripture and tradition'?

Well everyone has a "reading" of Scripture and Tradition.

You didn't answer the question.


Well I don't know exactly what his reading is. If you mean the practice of allowing remarried persons to communion or allowing remarriage as a pastoral concern then yes of course it is justified. There are canons regulating these things from at least the late 4th century and it was practiced for at least 600 years in the Catholic Church and maybe more.
Reply
#29
(10-05-2014, 02:19 PM)Silouan Wrote:
(10-05-2014, 01:50 PM)Klemens Wrote: All we can do is pray for the sanity of those participating in the Synod. Everything rests in our Lord's hands. Even scandalous canonisations have been willed by our Lord. However, being the realpolitik person that I am, I cannot help but think that these modernist developments have resulted from the inherent flaw of centralisation within the Latin Church, as exemplified by the post-Conciliar revolution. I frequently find myself believing in the superiority of Orthodox ecclesiology precisely because of its de-centralised structure. Other factors contribute to this „Byzantofilia", yet this doubt about the necessity of Roman supremacy always provides a seemingly rational and objective pull toward the East. I hope that these comments are not taken with offence, as I know that many on this forum would strongly object to such questions.


I will also say a lot of the hysteria over the potential loosening of the practices for remarried Catholics is most likely unfounded. The Orthodox Churches have had essentially the same practice Cardinal Kasper seems to be pushing since well before the Schism and it hasn't led to female priests or gay marriage or sanctioned abortion. I mean I can understand where the fear comes from because you look at western churches such as the Anglican Church and assume if you make any adjustments in pastoral approach that's the road you are going to go down. That isn't necessarily so.
Naturally,  I agree that Kasper's ideas will not themselves lead to many problems, although I am not too well disposed to it, yet (remnants of Latin upbringing still echo apparently). However, it is the constant change within the west, from one direction to another, that troubles me. It seems  especially troubling since these decisions have implications for all Latin Christians, not just those limited to one region (patriarchate, country, etc.). Like I said, It seems that too much power has been given to Rome.
Reply
#30
(10-05-2014, 02:07 PM)Heorot Wrote: You are welcome here, Klemens :) formerbuddhist, myself, and others have similarly split minds about this.
Thank you Heorot. It is good to finally encounter like-minded people with regard to this question.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)