Rise Up MEN of God!
"The third category form a group of men who tend to prefer marriage and sex to lonesome celibacy. That's the way it goes when you get rid of marriage for the clergy."

I disagree with this statement!  Celibacy does not have to be lonesome!  Absolutely not!  Virginity and Celibacy for those totally committed and in love with Christ, the Bridegroom of their souls, is NOT lonesome at all. This is why there are religious Orders.  Such ones give themselves totally to the Bridegroom and do not have a divided heart.  Yes, this is the ideal.  And for those called to the chaste single life as a lay person--yes, I admit that might have lonliness to it but it does not have to.  Sex is not the be all and end all and people can live without it.  It can be a cross to desire it and not be in a true marriage so that it can be holy thought and certainly that should be recognized.
I apologize for using unclear terms, Magdalene. By "lonesome" I meant the morally-, emotionally-, and ethically-neutral state of being Single. If I had meant it negatively, I would have said "lonely".

We have to expect more "manly" men to be drawn away from the clergy when marriage is reserved for the laity. In my experience it is the manly men who marry, and tend to be simpler. This is not always true. There is a very simple, big, strong, and masculine fellow who joined the local Franciscans. He is not the best at studies, but he is a faithful brother and will become an excellent country priest.
(11-09-2014, 11:14 AM)SCG Wrote: I think you’re wrong. See Vox’s post.  I used to work at the Mission Office and there are many women, religious and laywomen, in the mission fields.

And as Vox post said, she was under the watchful eye of a MAN! A lot of missions go with protection usually provided by mostly men ready to sacrifice their lives if necessary. How many women got the idea of their own and went out on their own to do as many men do? Yeah, not many.
(11-09-2014, 12:09 PM)Heorot Wrote: I hope we don't all equate a "soft-spoken" quality with a "fag" quality. Many men who are called to the priestly vocation have a certain temperament. This is the personality and character God has given and allowed to develop in them. It takes certain sorts.

Brash, outwardly-macho men tend not to be very spiritual, but rather simple and hard-working. They act as carpenters, farmers, smiths, strong husbands, and virtuous fathers. Those with a more intellectual bent are inevitably going to be weaker in terms of a stereotypical "masculinity".

Our own associations are not necessarily universal. The Orthodox would look at what we consider to be a very manly priest who is beardless and say he looks very effeminate. Give me a soft-spoken, charitable man above a loudmouth any day. Fr. John Corapi was very "manly" in terms of outward appearance, and now he has disappeared under a wave of accusations that he was a crook.

I see a gradation of manliness in the West: "effeminate" (faggy), "neutral", and "masculine". The first category are almost obviously homosexual, and it would just be ridiculous that anyone couldn't see it. The middle category are a great majority in the priesthood. The third category form a group of men who tend to prefer marriage and sex to lonesome celibacy. That's the way it goes when you get rid of marriage for the clergy.

As someone who falls definitely in the "neutral" category, leaning toward "masculine", I have had a difficult time trying to appear more manly or male. It doesn't interest me all that much, except for the inevitable interest generated by the pressure that is put on people like me by people like Old Sarum.

Quite apart from vocation stories, there is an interesting influence that occurs when Catholic men are Men. What I've noticed, as a struggling and recovering homosexual, is the importance of having manly straight males in the Religious and Clerical life. I know several of them, and there is a sort of push-and-pull process that goes on in my psyche. When I am isolated from those men, my disordered attraction becomes more difficult to combat. When I am visiting those men regularly, then suddenly, strangely, and gradually, women seem more beautiful, more attractive, and more appealing. It is never a conscious process on my part, or a propaganda effort on their part. Simply being near confident, strong, heterosexual male-Religious and Clergy makes me "absorb" an atmosphere of manliness, if you want.

I believe this is the key. We need a balance. No-one is equal, but each one is unique. The sexes have their places. I want women out of liturgy committees for sure, and behind secretarial desks, in kitchens, and at the sewing machine. I want men at the sawing-table, in the fields, and behind the altars. I especially encourage bearded men behind the altars - though not sports-jocks or assholes. They just need to be strong. That is manifested in many ways.

The main problem I see is that the Catholic youth have swallowed the red pill of our culture. They are "independent", "individuals", and "want to be themselves". They have been encouraged in this by the many closeted gay bishops and priests who love the effeminate guitar-masses and felt banners. It's a horrible cliché, but damn it... it's all true. We need men.

I would also point out the our Lord Himself wept at the death of His friend Lazarus. Many today would consider that weak and effeminate. He also commanded us to be gentle, meek and humble. I too have an affinity for quiet, unassuming people. There is nothing effeminate about that.

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