What It's Like To Be a Man
#11
(11-05-2014, 04:17 AM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: As a disabled man I feel like a child. There's an urge to go out, earn a living, get married, raise children and protect your family. Instead I'm stuck living with my parents with no clue what I'll do when they die. It's hard not to feel as a child when all your life woman treat you as one, not even considering you as someone they would seriously date. Feeling like Peter Pan I don't think God is calling me to marriage. What can an overgrown child do to raise godly children? What woman in modern society would want to marry an overgrown child who can't even do simple daily chores?

Sometimes it feels like the only way to feel manly is if a women acknowledges that you are one. When none will even treat you as such it is hard to feel like a man.

:(  This is killing me...  Wow... Ya know, I've thought about this before -- about what disease and even aging can do to men's feelings of self-worth. I've thought that it has to be a thousand times harder for a man to be disabled than it is for a woman, everything being equal. I am so sorry you're in the situation you're in; I sense a tremendous amount of pain...

But I, for one, don't see physical disease as making a man a "child" in any way. While masculinity is expressed in a physically healthy man in some pretty obvious ways, it doesn't follow that a MAN who can't do those typically masculine physical things isn't masculine. Masculinity can be expressed in ways that don't involve physical power or strength or health. Even though he's an atheist, take the example of Stephen Hawking, who's bound to a wheelchair but who writes and speaks and is respected for his intellect. Is there anyone in the world who sees him as "a child"? Hell no. No.  Think of all the vets who've come back from war with limbs missing, or paralyzed. Those guys are the epitome of masculinity, Thomas. And they are that even if they can't even wipe their own butts.

An overgrown child couldn't do a whole lot to raise Godly children, but a MAN in a wheelchair can. Ask Chestertonian about that! Ask some of those Vets who have kids -- and who are masculine HEROES! From a wheelchair or a bed, you can TEACH. You can WRITE. You can DRAW. You can make things. You can pray. You can LOVE. I obviously don't know the nature of your disability, but whatever it is, you can have a full, rich life -- as a MAN. If you strive for virtue, if you're willing to sacrifice, if you'd defend the weak if you could, if you love, if you stand up for the Truth, then you ARE a MAN, Thomas.

Boy, do I want to hug you so hard right now...

For what it's worth, I'm a woman, and I acknowledge that you are, indeed, a MAN.

And P.S. There ARE women out there who may well easily fall in love with you and want to be with YOU in spite of any disabilities. It happens all the time, dude. But it sounds to me as if you're not ready for such a thing yet (assuming you're called to marriage to begin with); it seems to me that you need your confidence back, to feel whole and to see yourself as a MAN before you can go there. But if you do that, the sky's the limit. I so pray you talk to someone about all this. You sound so sad... :(


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#12
(11-05-2014, 04:09 AM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(11-05-2014, 03:15 AM)Renatus Frater Wrote: Yes, financial pressure is the main thing, I guess. And its really not just putting food on the table and all that, but its about maintaining a life style, for most women. And if the work pressure was not enough, if a guy can't do that for any reason—maybe he's just unlucky—then he is considered a bit of a loser and can even lose his family.

You mind expanding on this part of what you wrote, RF? Are you saying that men have a fear of, say, getting fired -- and then losing his family on top of that since he's no longer bringing in the money? How much of a psychological pressure is that to you, or to most men, in your opinion? What do men do with that fear? Are there times when that fear is felt most acutely? What could women do to ease that sort of pressure?

I don't feel that that much since the family I have to sustain is only myself; I fear the prospect of it. I'm talking about a general, ubiquitous fear that is among men I know. But its not only fear of getting fired, but even of not being lucrative enough, and in most professions to keep the same amount of income, all things considered (tax, inflation, etc.) one must work more than one worked last year. I don't know if that's the economy where you live, but its like this here; its not that hard getting rich, its just hard staying rich.
I guess this is a byproduct of modern market economy coupled with high expectations.
It must be kinda humiliating for a man to earn less. I know people say this is silly, but still, at least for competitive men its hard. I don't even like when the women in my college have better grades than I have—one time I even worked so hard at a electromagnetism problem and refused any help because someone told me some chick had solved it already. I'm sorry for the machismo, but someone has to put up a fight, eh  :grin:
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#13
Well my disability is progressive, incurable and neurological, so over time I will lose more and more control of my body. It is also genetic, so that makes it just as hard to marry, barring the fact that disability is a taboo in the culture I live in. Basically my self-confidence took a real beating as I grew as a teenager. No matter which girl I had feelings for, she could never feel the same way, and I have good reason to suspect because it was my disability. My father helps me with simple day to day tasks like bathing and I have read many things women have written about not being able to remain married to a disabled man because she would feel like a mother to a child.

I'm not sad about it, though I used to be. It’s precisely because of all the sufferings in life I was able to turn to God. I'm able to embrace the cross because in a way I understand Jesus' love for man that is rarely returned.  Catholicism is the only religion that satisfies the problem of suffering. There are so many people with happy lives who are on the path to destruction.. So... God know what He's doing. Heaven will be all the better for it.

But I do think men need women to treat them like men, otherwise they don't feel like it.
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#14
(11-05-2014, 06:49 AM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: I'm not sad about it, though I used to be. It’s precisely because of all the sufferings in life I was able to turn to God. I'm able to embrace the cross because in a way I understand Jesus' love for man that is rarely returned.  Catholicism is the only religion that satisfies the problem of suffering. There are so many people with happy lives who are on the path to destruction.. So... God know what He's doing. Heaven will be all the better for it.

Gosh... There are a good number of truly heroic, saintly people on this forum. God bless you, Thomas. And know that what you just wrote above makes you a thousand times the man than the average healthy man is. Wow...

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#15
(11-05-2014, 06:49 AM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: But I do think men need women to treat them like men, otherwise they don't feel like it.
That's interesting, Tommo.

But I think that the ways women treat men is exactly equal to the number of women there are. There is a wonderful variety of astonishingly different and interesting women "out there". God sure did a good job when He created them woman things. A poor ole woman-thing is no more infallible than a poor ole man-thing. It does seem to be part of their womanish make-up to have a different expression of compassion, for example. Don't blame them for being women... that's what they're intended to be.

Mind you, there are cruel and vicious women just as there are cruel and vicious men; but let's not judge the best as if they were the same as the worst.
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#16
I'm not saying that all women are the same, but I thought this thread was so men can tell women what it's like to be a man. I thought it was important to draw attention to the fact that men want to be treated as men. Maybe your experience is different but it hurts me to be treated like an immature child.
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#17
(11-05-2014, 09:55 AM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: I'm not saying that all women are the same, but I thought this thread was so men can tell women what it's like to be a man. I thought it was important to draw attention to the fact that men want to be treated as men. Maybe your experience is different but it hurts me to be treated like an immature child.

Are you referring to that sort of annoying, sing-songy tone some women take when dealing with little kids,*** old people, and sick people? That sort of condescending "OK, hon, let's get you sat up now, OKaaaay?" -- all coupled with their doing things "for" you or to you that you didn't ask for and don't want? That condescension that says pretty loudly and clearly, "You're Patient (or Old Person, or what have you), not a Real Human Being, and this is how we talk to Patients" thing that pervades in hospitals, nursing homes (especially!), and among preschool teachers?

If that's what you're talking about, it happens to women, too. I imagine, though, that the psychological effects of that would by a lot worse for men, generally speaking.


*** Mind you, I think it's natural to talk that way to little kids. In fact, it's pretty universal, and is good for kids. It's called "Motherese" and it helps kids learn language when it's spoken like that --  over-pronounced, repeated, in a high voice, in sing-song, etc. People talk that way to animals, too (I do anyway LOL). But some folks overdo it -- and do it to kids who've outgrown the need for it. But when it's done to grown-ass humans, it's --- I hate it.
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#18
Yes, that's annoying. No one takes you seriously as a person. You're too immature to know what you're doing.
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#19
(11-05-2014, 09:55 AM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: I'm not saying that all women are the same, but I thought this thread was so men can tell women what it's like to be a man. I thought it was important to draw attention to the fact that men want to be treated as men. Maybe your experience is different but it hurts me to be treated like an immature child.
Sorry, I thought I was talking to a man.
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#20
(11-05-2014, 10:43 AM)Oldavid Wrote:
(11-05-2014, 09:55 AM)ThomasTheDoubter Wrote: I'm not saying that all women are the same, but I thought this thread was so men can tell women what it's like to be a man. I thought it was important to draw attention to the fact that men want to be treated as men. Maybe your experience is different but it hurts me to be treated like an immature child.
Sorry, I thought I was talking to a man.

Where exactly did I say "all women do X"? Shouldn't "real men" be logical?
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