Questions about evangelizing
#11
(11-06-2014, 08:30 AM)aquinas138 Wrote:
(11-06-2014, 12:26 AM)Poche Wrote: The fact that he is divorced doesn't prevent him from entering the Church.

Obviously, but unless you already "buy in" to Catholic doctrine, your impression is that you can only be a "second class" or "partial" Catholic. If you remarry, you can't receive Communion, so you might ask what's the point of joining a religion if you can't partake in its most sacred ritual? That requires a convincing answer.
There is also teh possibility that he could get an annulment. I think we should all buy into the Catholic doctrine and try to make such people feel welcome in the church.
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#12
(11-07-2014, 12:39 AM)Poche Wrote:
(11-06-2014, 08:30 AM)aquinas138 Wrote:
(11-06-2014, 12:26 AM)Poche Wrote: The fact that he is divorced doesn't prevent him from entering the Church.

Obviously, but unless you already "buy in" to Catholic doctrine, your impression is that you can only be a "second class" or "partial" Catholic. If you remarry, you can't receive Communion, so you might ask what's the point of joining a religion if you can't partake in its most sacred ritual? That requires a convincing answer.
There is also teh possibility that he could get an annulment. I think we should all buy into the Catholic doctrine and try to make such people feel welcome in the church.

Firstly, whether or not a person can remarry shouldn't even be the issue. That's completely peripheral.  The only issue that matters is sharing the faith with this person. That's all that matters. Why would you get into all that about the possibility of an annulment with someone who in all probability doesn't even know the very basics of the Christian faith.

In the second place--and as an aside--annulments are given out too freely. Well no, let me correct myself and I'll just say they're given too easily, because my understanding is that they're certainly not free. So as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't trust any annulment these days. Not unless I'd first spoken about it with a very traditionally minded priest who has experience and knowledge with the matter.
"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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#13
(11-07-2014, 07:39 AM)Jacafamala Wrote:
(11-07-2014, 12:39 AM)Poche Wrote:
(11-06-2014, 08:30 AM)aquinas138 Wrote:
(11-06-2014, 12:26 AM)Poche Wrote: The fact that he is divorced doesn't prevent him from entering the Church.

Obviously, but unless you already "buy in" to Catholic doctrine, your impression is that you can only be a "second class" or "partial" Catholic. If you remarry, you can't receive Communion, so you might ask what's the point of joining a religion if you can't partake in its most sacred ritual? That requires a convincing answer.
There is also teh possibility that he could get an annulment. I think we should all buy into the Catholic doctrine and try to make such people feel welcome in the church.

Firstly, whether or not a person can remarry shouldn't even be the issue. That's completely peripheral.  The only issue that matters is sharing the faith with this person. That's all that matters. Why would you get into all that about the possibility of an annulment with someone who in all probability doesn't even know the very basics of the Christian faith.

In the second place--and as an aside--annulments are given out too freely. Well no, let me correct myself and I'll just say they're given too easily, because my understanding is that they're certainly not free. So as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't trust any annulment these days. Not unless I'd first spoken about it with a very traditionally minded priest who has experience and knowledge with the matter.

I guess I was jumping ahead a step - a divorced and remarried person might have problems converting because of their situation; that they are divorced and remarried does not exempt us from sharing the faith with them.

Annulments probably are given out too freely, but it is also possible that they were not given often enough before the Council, and it is undeniably true that people today are woefully catechized inside the Church and outside of it inundated by all sorts of perverted ideas of what constitutes matrimony. There are probably many more people today than in 1950 who get married not really intending permanence or monogamy. Though I doubt this accounts for 100% of the annulment inflation, it certainly does to some extent.
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#14
(11-07-2014, 07:39 AM)Jacafamala Wrote: So as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't trust any annulment these days. Not unless I'd first spoken about it with a very traditionally minded priest who has experience and knowledge with the matter.

There should be no problem in trusting the annulment of a Catholic who married outside the Church.  It's ipso facto null and void due to lack of form, and today there are multitudes of Catholics who enter into such unions.  I have a niece and a nephew who have done so.  My brother-in-law's sister married outside the Church, and two sisters of my sister-in-law did as well. 

Every single one of them is a baptized Catholic.  None of their marriages are valid, as each arrangement contradicts the Sixth Precept of the Church.
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#15
(11-08-2014, 05:48 PM)DJR Wrote:
(11-07-2014, 07:39 AM)Jacafamala Wrote: So as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't trust any annulment these days. Not unless I'd first spoken about it with a very traditionally minded priest who has experience and knowledge with the matter.

There should be no problem in trusting the annulment of a Catholic who married outside the Church.  It's ipso facto null and void due to lack of form, and today there are multitudes of Catholics who enter into such unions.  I have a niece and a nephew who have done so.  My brother-in-law's sister married outside the Church, and two sisters of my sister-in-law did as well. 

Every single one of them is a baptized Catholic.  None of their marriages are valid, as each arrangement contradicts the Sixth Precept of the Church.

How about a lapsed Catholic? How goes it in that sort of a situation?
"Not only are we all in the same boat, but we are all seasick.” --G.K. Chesterton
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