So we sang "A Mighty Fortress" at church yesterday
#21
I don't completely understand. Are the hymns not prescribed?
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#22
(11-11-2014, 02:27 PM)Silouan Wrote: I don't completely understand. Are the hymns not prescribed?

There are nearly endless "options" in the Mass of Paul VI (Novus Ordo). One could legitimately choose anything from a plainchant version of the actual Mass Propers to Crosby, Stills Nash and Young folks songs, show tunes or some cheesy Swahili children's song with tambourine accompaniment. It's usually up to the priest or more accurately, the liturgy committee and the choir director.


Dom Kirby of Silverstream Priory touches on this issue of options here:

http://vultus.stblogs.org/index.php/2014/02/1965/
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#23
(11-11-2014, 02:27 PM)Silouan Wrote: I don't completely understand. Are the hymns not prescribed?

No.  And that, imho, is part of the problem.  And which is why it's NOT problematic with the Divine Liturgy of St. John.
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#24
(11-11-2014, 01:30 PM)formerbuddhist Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 01:07 PM)AntoniusMaximus Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 11:26 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote: Why not just use the hymns from the Divine Office in a heiratic vernacular at the Novus a Ordo,or better yet, sing them in Latin? There are hundreds of doctrinally sound hymns in our Roman Catholic patrimony that would be perfectly suited to the liturgy and they are freely available.  Some go back millennia.


http://www.preces-latinae.org/index.htm    This site has a ton of information on various prayers and hymnsin our patrimony.

I take it you haven't met too many choir directors, they can be rather ruthless individuals who wield way too much power in my experience.   

I read the CCWatershed Blog frequently and so I've heard that's the case but I haven't had any reason to talk to choir directors so I've no first hand experience. There should be some uniformity in the types of hymns used, I mean, in this town each of the three parishes is totally different in how they offer Mass and what hymns are used. We have the Willy Wonka and electric guitar parish whose "worship space" looks like the set of a Star Trek movie, a Marty Haugen and Dan Schutte parish with Tambourines and a tone deaf choir director who chooses the cheesiest and most sentimental drivel possible, and the college parish where the Mass Propers are almost always used and there is a degree of reverence.

People have lost the sense that music is a very powerful thing that can shape the mind and heart of a person: his or her doctrines, thought patterns and desires (back in the day the Church would have councils deciding who can sing what).
They think if you restrict too much the way art is done you are doing violence to some creative person. Which is baloney, of course.
So, in a sense, I wouldn't really mind a strict music director.
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#25
(11-11-2014, 02:44 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 02:27 PM)Silouan Wrote: I don't completely understand. Are the hymns not prescribed?
No.  And that, imho, is part of the problem.  And which is why it's NOT problematic with the Divine Liturgy of St. John.

The liturgy itself may be okay, although I dislike the new wording, but some of the melodies are horrible.  And we do have some cheesy hymns.  And at my parish, they take Roman Rite hymns and adapt them to some of the melodies, which make the hymn very strained.  Cantors did that last Sunday; it sounded bad.

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#26
(11-11-2014, 03:37 PM)DJR Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 02:44 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 02:27 PM)Silouan Wrote: I don't completely understand. Are the hymns not prescribed?
No.  And that, imho, is part of the problem.  And which is why it's NOT problematic with the Divine Liturgy of St. John.

The liturgy itself may be okay, although I dislike the new wording, but some of the melodies are horrible.  And we do have some cheesy hymns. And at my parish, they take Roman Rite hymns and adapt them to some of the melodies, which make the hymn very strained.  Cantors did that last Sunday; it sounded bad.

??? ??? ???

Why on earth would they do *that*?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?  If that happened at a Byzantine Catholic Church that I went to, I'd feel duty-bound and compelled to open my big mouth and complain in no uncertain terms to the priest, the cantor, and anyone else with ears to hear!!!  There is absolutely NO REASON whatsoever to insert RC hymns into the Divine Liturgy!!  NONE!!  In fact, where would they even be inserted, anyway??  (I take it that the parish you attend IS Eastern Catholic, right?)
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#27
(11-11-2014, 05:36 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 03:37 PM)DJR Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 02:44 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 02:27 PM)Silouan Wrote: I don't completely understand. Are the hymns not prescribed?
No.  And that, imho, is part of the problem.  And which is why it's NOT problematic with the Divine Liturgy of St. John.

The liturgy itself may be okay, although I dislike the new wording, but some of the melodies are horrible.  And we do have some cheesy hymns. And at my parish, they take Roman Rite hymns and adapt them to some of the melodies, which make the hymn very strained.  Cantors did that last Sunday; it sounded bad.

??? ??? ???

Why on earth would they do *that*?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?  If that happened at a Byzantine Catholic Church that I went to, I'd feel duty-bound and compelled to open my big mouth and complain in no uncertain terms to the priest, the cantor, and anyone else with ears to hear!!!  There is absolutely NO REASON whatsoever to insert RC hymns into the Divine Liturgy!!  NONE!!  In fact, where would they even be inserted, anyway??  (I take it that the parish you attend IS Eastern Catholic, right?)

Epiphany parish, Roswell, Georgia, Eparchy of Passaic. 

The hymns are in the normal places that we sing our regular hymns:  beginning and end of the Liturgy.  On the Sunday of the 7th Ecumenical Council, we sang Faith of Our Fathers, but it was sung to the normal tune of that hymn.

Last Sunday, I forget what the name of the hymn is, but it was sung at the end and adapted to one of the melodies used in the Liturgy. 

Oh, I just remembered.  It was Now Thank We all our God.

We also sing the usual American songs on the national holidays, America the Beautiful being the most often.  I don't know why it is done.  There are many other, more beautiful, hymns that we can sing.

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#28
(11-11-2014, 09:50 PM)DJR Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 05:36 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 03:37 PM)DJR Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 02:44 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 02:27 PM)Silouan Wrote: I don't completely understand. Are the hymns not prescribed?
No.  And that, imho, is part of the problem.  And which is why it's NOT problematic with the Divine Liturgy of St. John.

The liturgy itself may be okay, although I dislike the new wording, but some of the melodies are horrible.  And we do have some cheesy hymns. And at my parish, they take Roman Rite hymns and adapt them to some of the melodies, which make the hymn very strained.  Cantors did that last Sunday; it sounded bad.

??? ??? ???

Why on earth would they do *that*?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?  If that happened at a Byzantine Catholic Church that I went to, I'd feel duty-bound and compelled to open my big mouth and complain in no uncertain terms to the priest, the cantor, and anyone else with ears to hear!!!  There is absolutely NO REASON whatsoever to insert RC hymns into the Divine Liturgy!!  NONE!!  In fact, where would they even be inserted, anyway??  (I take it that the parish you attend IS Eastern Catholic, right?)

Epiphany parish, Roswell, Georgia, Eparchy of Passaic. 

The hymns are in the normal places that we sing our regular hymns:  beginning and end of the Liturgy.  On the Sunday of the 7th Ecumenical Council, we sang Faith of Our Fathers, but it was sung to the normal tune of that hymn.

Last Sunday, I forget what the name of the hymn is, but it was sung at the end and adapted to one of the melodies used in the Liturgy. 

Oh, I just remembered.  It was Now Thank We all our God.

We also sing the usual American songs on the national holidays, America the Beautiful being the most often.  I don't know why it is done.  There are many other, more beautiful, hymns that we can sing.



Normal places? What do you mean the beginning and end? I don't understand.
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#29
(11-12-2014, 02:59 AM)Silouan Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 09:50 PM)DJR Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 05:36 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 03:37 PM)DJR Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 02:44 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 02:27 PM)Silouan Wrote: I don't completely understand. Are the hymns not prescribed?
No.  And that, imho, is part of the problem.  And which is why it's NOT problematic with the Divine Liturgy of St. John.

The liturgy itself may be okay, although I dislike the new wording, but some of the melodies are horrible.  And we do have some cheesy hymns. And at my parish, they take Roman Rite hymns and adapt them to some of the melodies, which make the hymn very strained.  Cantors did that last Sunday; it sounded bad.

??? ??? ???

Why on earth would they do *that*?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?  If that happened at a Byzantine Catholic Church that I went to, I'd feel duty-bound and compelled to open my big mouth and complain in no uncertain terms to the priest, the cantor, and anyone else with ears to hear!!!  There is absolutely NO REASON whatsoever to insert RC hymns into the Divine Liturgy!!  NONE!!  In fact, where would they even be inserted, anyway??  (I take it that the parish you attend IS Eastern Catholic, right?)

Epiphany parish, Roswell, Georgia, Eparchy of Passaic. 

The hymns are in the normal places that we sing our regular hymns:  beginning and end of the Liturgy.  On the Sunday of the 7th Ecumenical Council, we sang Faith of Our Fathers, but it was sung to the normal tune of that hymn.

Last Sunday, I forget what the name of the hymn is, but it was sung at the end and adapted to one of the melodies used in the Liturgy. 

Oh, I just remembered.  It was Now Thank We all our God.

We also sing the usual American songs on the national holidays, America the Beautiful being the most often.  I don't know why it is done.  There are many other, more beautiful, hymns that we can sing.



Normal places? What do you mean the beginning and end? I don't understand.

We sing a hymn at the beginning of the Liturgy while Father incenses.  And we sing a hymn at the end of the Liturgy after Father closes the doors.  Beginning and end.  Those are the normal places for hymns, at least for us.  And of course there are hymns during distribution of the Holy Mystery.
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#30
(11-12-2014, 11:26 AM)DJR Wrote:
(11-12-2014, 02:59 AM)Silouan Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 09:50 PM)DJR Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 05:36 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 03:37 PM)DJR Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 02:44 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(11-11-2014, 02:27 PM)Silouan Wrote: I don't completely understand. Are the hymns not prescribed?
No.  And that, imho, is part of the problem.  And which is why it's NOT problematic with the Divine Liturgy of St. John.

The liturgy itself may be okay, although I dislike the new wording, but some of the melodies are horrible.  And we do have some cheesy hymns. And at my parish, they take Roman Rite hymns and adapt them to some of the melodies, which make the hymn very strained.  Cantors did that last Sunday; it sounded bad.

??? ??? ???

Why on earth would they do *that*?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?  If that happened at a Byzantine Catholic Church that I went to, I'd feel duty-bound and compelled to open my big mouth and complain in no uncertain terms to the priest, the cantor, and anyone else with ears to hear!!!  There is absolutely NO REASON whatsoever to insert RC hymns into the Divine Liturgy!!  NONE!!  In fact, where would they even be inserted, anyway??  (I take it that the parish you attend IS Eastern Catholic, right?)

Epiphany parish, Roswell, Georgia, Eparchy of Passaic. 

The hymns are in the normal places that we sing our regular hymns:  beginning and end of the Liturgy.  On the Sunday of the 7th Ecumenical Council, we sang Faith of Our Fathers, but it was sung to the normal tune of that hymn.

Last Sunday, I forget what the name of the hymn is, but it was sung at the end and adapted to one of the melodies used in the Liturgy. 

Oh, I just remembered.  It was Now Thank We all our God.

We also sing the usual American songs on the national holidays, America the Beautiful being the most often.  I don't know why it is done.  There are many other, more beautiful, hymns that we can sing.



Normal places? What do you mean the beginning and end? I don't understand.

We sing a hymn at the beginning of the Liturgy while Father incenses.  And we sing a hymn at the end of the Liturgy after Father closes the doors.  Beginning and end.  Those are the normal places for hymns, at least for us.  And of course there are hymns during distribution of the Holy Mystery.


Which service would the beginning be? Matins? Hours? Maybe both? Or are you talking about Proskomedia? I'm sorry I'm still trying to understand exactly where you are talking about. The Liturgy begins with "Blesses is the Kingdom." So are you singing before that?
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