High Carb "diet"
#21
As a point of information, according to Dr. McDougall the American diet typically consists of: Starch, 20%; Meat and Dairy, 70%; Fruits, 5%; and Vegetables, 5%.

His "Starch Solution" consists of: Starch, 70%; Meat and Dairy 0%; Fruits, 10%; and Vegetables, 20%.

He classifies starches as: grains--barley, buckwheat, corn, millet, oats, rice, rye, sorghum, wheat, wild rice; legumes--beans, lentils, peas; starchy vegetables--carrots, Jerusalem artichokes, parsnips, potatoes, salsify, sweet potatoes, winter squashes, yams. 

Amongst non-starchy vegetables, he includes: bok choy, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, celery, green beans, kale, leeks, lettuce, various other greens, onions, peppers, summer squashes, zucchini, etc.

And then he lists various fruits.
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#22
J Mike,

Have you and your wife started your diet yet?  What are your goals?  Weight loss?  Do you have recent blood work as a baseline so we can follow your progress?  It would be enlightening to follow your progress on a regular basis, to see how effective this high starch diet is in reaching your goals.  And it might also be a fun experiment to compare your data/experience over time with that of low carber's like Clare, myself, etc. 

Munching on a Chocolate-Mint Fat Bomb watching Fresno state vs. Boise state football,

Christulsa
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#23
(12-07-2014, 12:12 AM)christulsa123 Wrote: J Mike,

Have you and your wife started your diet yet?  What are your goals?  Weight loss?  Do you have recent blood work as a baseline so we can follow your progress?  It would be enlightening to follow your progress on a regular basis, to see how effective this high starch diet is in reaching your goals.  And it might also be a fun experiment to compare your data/experience over time with that of low carber's like Clare, myself, etc. 

Munching on a Chocolate-Mint Fat Bomb watching Fresno state vs. Boise state football,

Christulsa

Yes, we have started--we're a week into it.  Our goals?  Lose some weight, feel better, get my wife off some or all of her meds, save some money.  Just being off all dairy has *already* improved her arthritis pains and she's been able to reduce her pain medication!!  That in itself is a little victory!!

I went for blood work (lipids, comprehensive metabolic panel, vit. D, PSA) on Friday, so should have the results in a few days.  The problem with keeping on repeating the blood work is that I'm on Medicare, and they don't always approve some of the tests, esp. lipids and PSA, and especially if they're repeated "too often", whatever that means.  And I sure ain't gonna keep paying for them out of pocket!  The PSA is, imho, a complete waste of time, *unless* there are symptoms and/OR a digital-rectal exam shows a significantly enlarged prostate.  As for the lipids, I think the whole cholesterol issue (and this is where, in part, I have some disagreement with McDougall & Co.) is usually a non-issue.  I got the tests done (as part of a physical) only because I haven't been to the dr. in over 5 years (no need to see her), and wanted to get reinstated in the practice...just in case.  I'm not going to make an issue out of the cholesterol thing here, but there's plenty of resources available for you to investigate if you like.  Just go to Amazon (or Google, for that matter) and search for "the myth of cholesterol".  It's kind of an eye opener!

So, anyway, I'll have a baseline of sorts, but repeating the tests with any frequency may be a non-starter.  I will, however, let you know the results when I get them.

FYI, my current weight is 212 lbs., I'm 5'8", and my blood pressure's  120/80.  My age?  Older than dirt!! :grin: :grin:  (The exact details of that are a very closely guarded secret that requires the highest level of security clearance [from me!] to be revealed, which few if any on this board yet have :LOL: :LOL:.) I take no meds other than otc allergy medicine for hay fever and my allergy to our three cats.  They know I'm allergic to them so I'm the one they congregate on  :).  (Interesting, but I don't really react to them allergically as over the years I've desensitized myself to them, but other cats??  Eeeeeeek!)

Just finished a bowl of combined Grape Nuts, Ezekiel cereal, and Ancient Grain flakes with almond milk, a few dried cherries, a few dried blueberries, an apple, and a mug of Irish Breakfast tea, black, a little bit of honey. Yumyumyumyumyumyumyum  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)!

Here's hopin' and prayin' my Ducks run circles around and annihilate those hated Seminoles in the Rose Bowl!!  Go Ducks!!!! :grin: :grin:
[Image: oregon_ducks_21.gif]

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#24
(12-07-2014, 02:12 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(12-07-2014, 12:12 AM)christulsa123 Wrote: J Mike,

Have you and your wife started your diet yet?  What are your goals?  Weight loss?  Do you have recent blood work as a baseline so we can follow your progress?  It would be enlightening to follow your progress on a regular basis, to see how effective this high starch diet is in reaching your goals.  And it might also be a fun experiment to compare your data/experience over time with that of low carber's like Clare, myself, etc. 

Munching on a Chocolate-Mint Fat Bomb watching Fresno state vs. Boise state football,

Christulsa

Yes, we have started--we're a week into it.  Our goals?  Lose some weight, feel better, get my wife off some or all of her meds, save some money.  Just being off all dairy has *already* improved her arthritis pains and she's been able to reduce her pain medication!!  That in itself is a little victory!!

I went for blood work (lipids, comprehensive metabolic panel, vit. D, PSA) on Friday, so should have the results in a few days.  The problem with keeping on repeating the blood work is that I'm on Medicare, and they don't always approve some of the tests, esp. lipids and PSA, and especially if they're repeated "too often", whatever that means.  And I sure ain't gonna keep paying for them out of pocket!  The PSA is, imho, a complete waste of time, *unless* there are symptoms and/OR a digital-rectal exam shows a significantly enlarged prostate.  As for the lipids, I think the whole cholesterol issue (and this is where, in part, I have some disagreement with McDougall & Co.) is usually a non-issue.  I got the tests done (as part of a physical) only because I haven't been to the dr. in over 5 years (no need to see her), and wanted to get reinstated in the practice...just in case.  I'm not going to make an issue out of the cholesterol thing here, but there's plenty of resources available for you to investigate if you like.  Just go to Amazon (or Google, for that matter) and search for "the myth of cholesterol".  It's kind of an eye opener!

So, anyway, I'll have a baseline of sorts, but repeating the tests with any frequency may be a non-starter.  I will, however, let you know the results when I get them.

FYI, my current weight is 212 lbs., I'm 5'8", and my blood pressure's  120/80.  My age?  Older than dirt!! :grin: :grin:  (The exact details of that are a very closely guarded secret that requires the highest level of security clearance [from me!] to be revealed, which few if any on this board yet have :LOL: :LOL:.) I take no meds other than otc allergy medicine for hay fever and my allergy to our three cats.  They know I'm allergic to them so I'm the one they congregate on  :).  (Interesting, but I don't really react to them allergically as over the years I've desensitized myself to them, but other cats??  Eeeeeeek!)

Just finished a bowl of combined Grape Nuts, Ezekiel cereal, and Ancient Grain flakes with almond milk, a few dried cherries, a few dried blueberries, an apple, and a mug of Irish Breakfast tea, black, a little bit of honey. Yumyumyumyumyumyumyum  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)!

Here's hopin' and prayin' my Ducks run circles around and annihilate those hated Seminoles in the Rose Bowl!!  Go Ducks!!!! :grin: :grin:
[Image: oregon_ducks_21.gif]

When I did low fat it helped with my the arthritis in my right knee.  Fat will cause inflammation if in the context of a high carb diet.  My arthritis in my knee disappeared the first weeks on low carb/high fat., before any major weight loss which also helped restore my knee.

It will be interesting to see you and your wife's progress on the High Starch diet, how challenging it is, how well you lose weight, improve lipid profiles, get off meds.  The low fat (high carb) may reduce your allergies too, ie the inflammation.

Keep us posted.  :popcorn:  (woops too many carbs)

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#25
(12-07-2014, 11:28 PM)christulsa123 Wrote: When I did low fat it helped with my the arthritis in my right knee.  Fat will cause inflammation if in the context of a high carb diet.  My arthritis in my knee disappeared the first weeks on low carb/high fat., before any major weight loss which also helped restore my knee.

It will be interesting to see you and your wife's progress on the High Starch diet, how challenging it is, how well you lose weight, improve lipid profiles, get off meds.  The low fat (high carb) may reduce your allergies too, ie the inflammation.

Keep us posted.  :popcorn:  (woops too many carbs)

The only thing challenging at the moment is my love for meat  :grin:!  My wife really couldn't care less about meat, except for an occasional good hamburger.

Btw, I really should have named this thread "The Starch Diet".  Starch is not just carbohydrate, especially the "healthy" starches.  Oh well...
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#26
Update--Just got my pre-diet blood work results:

Blood sugar=91 (after fasting)---this is fine.
Total cholesterol=171 (< 200 considered "desirable")
LDL=111 (100-129 considered "ideal")
HDL=34 (< 40 considered "poor"--my dr. said this is, in my case, mainly heredity)
Triglycerides=131 (<150 considered "desirable")
Vitamin D=52 (>30 considered good, around 50 considered almost perfect)
PSA=.6 (normal)

All that on a crappy diet with lots of microwave stuff, junk, fast food, lots and lots of stress, etc.  Go figure!!
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#27
(12-08-2014, 11:52 AM)J Michael Wrote:   Starch is not just carbohydrate, especially the "healthy" starches.  Oh well...

But it IS!! Starch is concentrated carbohydrate. Here is the lowdown on starch:

Starch or amylum is a carbohydrate consisting of a large number of glucose units joined by glycosidic bonds. This polysaccharide is produced by most green plants as an energy store. It is the most common carbohydrate in human diets and is contained in large amounts in such staple foods as potatoes, wheat, maize, rice, and cassava. Pure starch is a white, tasteless and odorless powder that is insoluble in cold water or alcohol. It consists of two types of molecules: the linear and helical amylose and the branched amylopectin. Depending on the plant, starch generally contains 20 to 25% amylose and 75 to 80% amylopectin by weight. Glycogen, the glucose store of animals, is a more branched version of amylopectin. Starch is processed to produce many of the sugars in processed foods. Dissolving starch in warm water gives wheatpaste, which can be used as a thickening, stiffening or gluing agent. The biggest industrial non-food use of starch is as adhesive in the papermaking process. Starch can be applied to parts of some garments before ironing, to stiffen them.

http://www.freebase.com/m/06x3w


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#28
(12-10-2014, 05:55 PM)Zedta Wrote:
(12-08-2014, 11:52 AM)J Michael Wrote:   Starch is not just carbohydrate, especially the "healthy" starches.  Oh well...

But it IS!! Starch is concentrated carbohydrate. Here is the lowdown on starch:

Starch or amylum is a carbohydrate consisting of a large number of glucose units joined by glycosidic bonds. This polysaccharide is produced by most green plants as an energy store. It is the most common carbohydrate in human diets and is contained in large amounts in such staple foods as potatoes, wheat, maize, rice, and cassava. Pure starch is a white, tasteless and odorless powder that is insoluble in cold water or alcohol. It consists of two types of molecules: the linear and helical amylose and the branched amylopectin. Depending on the plant, starch generally contains 20 to 25% amylose and 75 to 80% amylopectin by weight. Glycogen, the glucose store of animals, is a more branched version of amylopectin. Starch is processed to produce many of the sugars in processed foods. Dissolving starch in warm water gives wheatpaste, which can be used as a thickening, stiffening or gluing agent. The biggest industrial non-food use of starch is as adhesive in the papermaking process. Starch can be applied to parts of some garments before ironing, to stiffen them.

http://www.freebase.com/m/06x3w

Thanks, Z, but I'm very familiar with this.  I suppose I should've been more specific.  The "Starch Solution" plan involves consumption of complex carbohydrates in the forms mentioned above, which also include a whole array of vitamins, minerals, protein, etc.  It's not like it's a diet of industrial starch or something  :eyeroll: :).
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#29
(12-10-2014, 06:28 PM)J Michael Wrote: I suppose I should've been more specific.  The "Starch Solution" plan involves consumption of complex carbohydrates in the forms mentioned above, which also include a whole array of vitamins, minerals, protein, etc.  It's not like it's a diet of industrial starch or something  :eyeroll: :).
Yair. But animal and vegetable fats and oils are almost pure carbohydrate as well. I think the point of the exercise is that all carbohydrates, regardless of their origin, require a mixture of vitamins and minerals (often removed or unbalanced by commercial processing) to be effectively metabolised. Lab rats can't live on pure starch and I can't see anything to suggest that I could either. Starch is a good source of metabolic energy (as is fats and oils) but they have to have the mechanism that uses them effectively.

My wife develops a new fad a week that's supposed to make her smarter and stronger and live forever. Every one is "better than the last". But me; I just like plain, simple food... the kind that can sustain you until you die.
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#30
(12-11-2014, 09:27 AM)Oldavid Wrote: [quote='J Michael' pid='1268387' dateline='1418250497']
I suppose I should've been more specific.  The "Starch Solution" plan involves consumption of complex carbohydrates in the forms mentioned above, which also include a whole array of vitamins, minerals, protein, etc.  It's not like it's a diet of industrial starch or something  :eyeroll: :).
Yair. But animal and vegetable fats and oils are almost pure carbohydrate as well.
Quote: ??? ???  There are 3 main "micronutrients": fat, carbohydrate, and protein.  I don't understand your statement.


(12-11-2014, 09:27 AM)Oldavid Wrote: I think the point of the exercise is that all carbohydrates, regardless of their origin, require a mixture of vitamins and minerals (often removed or unbalanced by commercial processing) to be effectively metabolised. Lab rats can't live on pure starch and I can't see anything to suggest that I could either. Starch is a good source of metabolic energy (as is fats and oils) but they have to have the mechanism that uses them effectively.
[quote]

Not all carbohydrates are equal.  There are simple carbs and complex carbs.
[quote] Do carbohydrates really make us fat?

Some carbs do, but good carbs don’t.

Most trendy diets claim that all carbohydrates are bad guys, yet of the three macronutrients that provide calories in our diet (carbs, protein, and fat), carbohydrates are the body’s primary fuel source. They’re responsible for managing your heart rate, digestion, breathing, exercising, walking, and thinking.

Roughly 70 percent of your daily calories should come from good (complex) carbohydrates. The ones to avoid are called simple carbs.

Both types of carbs are sugars. Both are digested and converted into glucose, which is used by the body for energy: in the blood as glucose, or stored in either the muscles or the liver as glycogen. When consumed in excess, carbohydrates can be converted to fat.

Simple carbohydrates include table sugar, molasses, honey, alcohol, white bread, white pasta, white rice, fried chips, sugary cereals, fruit juices, candy, and milk. Most simple carbs are nutritionally empty because they have been tinkered with by humans, stripped of their fiber, minerals, and vitamins. They are digested quickly by the body and cause a sharp spike in your blood sugar levels.

In response to this spike, your pancreas pumps out insulin to transport and deliver the energy-bearing glucose to cells throughout your body. This process causes your blood sugar and insulin levels to swing like a pendulum, leaving you feeling fatigued, hungry, and craving still more simple carbohydrates.

And because simple carbohydrates are digested so quickly, any excess sugar is converted to fat. For these reasons, most simple carbohydrates are a poor food choice.

In contrast, complex carbohydrates are nutritious, and include vegetables, whole grain breads and pastas, beans, peas, brown rice, sweet potatoes, oats, fruits, and whole grain cereals. They are loaded with fiber, vitamins, minerals, and micronutrients. Unlike simple carbohydrates, complex carbohydrates cause a balanced and controlled release of sugar into your system. This slow release gives the body more time to use the carbohydrates as fuel; as a result, fewer turn to fat and insulin remains stable.

So if you consume, whole, good, natural carbs, you will enjoy more consistent energy throughout the day without gaining extra pounds.

As you can see, the two types of carbs differ immensely from a nutritional standpoint. Simple carbohydrates are calorie laden, providing little nutrition and causing weight gain. Complex carbohydrates are lower in calories and, because they are loaded with fiber, provide bulk that fills you up sooner, alleviates hunger pangs, and keeps you feeling satisfied longer.
http://engine2diet.com/question/do-carbo...ke-us-fat/

[quote='Oldavid' pid='1268423' dateline='1418304436']

My wife develops a new fad a week that's supposed to make her smarter and stronger and live forever. Every one is "better than the last". But me; I just like plain, simple food... the kind that can sustain you until you die.

So.....she's getting progressively smarter, stronger, and immortal-er..  You'd better watch out!! :LOL: :LOL:

As for the "plain, simple food", I'm in agreement with you there.  I look at all the wonderful, tantalizing cookbooks we've accumulated over the years and marvel at the infinite and complex array of ways to combine different ingredients for different things.  Then I consider how many actual recipes we've used from probably the thousands available to us in those books, and it's a tiny percentage of them.

What we're finding with this "diet" is that as we go along, we are tweaking it here and there, as I mentioned we would do.  We've added a lot more fiber in the way of more grains (complex carbs) and veggies, cut out 99% of dairy products, reduced oil consumption by a significant amount, reduced animal protein and fat by about 2/3-3/4.  The result---more gas  :LOL: :grin: :LOL: :grin:.

We'll be adding back in some more animal protein and fats but staying with roughly the same amount of complex carbs in the form of grains, starchy veggies, etc., and increasing the amount of non-starchy veggies some.  Trying to find a balance AND keep it simple.  The K.I.S.S.* protocol is the one most suited for us.  Soups and stews are a great way to do this!




*Keep It Simple, Stupid! :grin:
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