NYC St. Patricks Parade
#41
(03-23-2015, 11:46 AM)Azygos Wrote:
(03-22-2015, 07:27 PM)spikepaga Wrote: People like Voris and yourself are really tremendously unfair.

When I or any Catholic state facts like:

-John Paul 2 kissed the Koran
-John Paul 2 s ecumenical meeting in Assisi desecrated altars
-John Paul engaged in scandalous actions

We are neither bashing, not an obstacle to "others Holiness" , mocking or damaging reputation since these are FACTUAL EVENTS THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE!! 

You keep on using words like "bashing", "mockery of reputation" , "detraction" , "obstacle to others Holiness" and so on., please tell me how any of those apply to these factual circumstances???????

Do I need to link the endless litany Popes Francis sermons, comments and interviews as well?

I guess it's much more convenient to bury your head in the sand and lash out at the messenger because you can't face or make sense of the reality of the gravity of the situation.
The only "obstacle" to others holiness are people who try to keep the counterrevolution suppressed by keeping the truth about Francis hidden. If you know what Francis is at least you have the knowledge to guard yourself and your family against his errors and his reign of terror .

And if my "biological father" was beating my mother and raping my brothers and sisters every night you bet I would resist him at all cost. I would not sit quietly and be complicit to his abuse. And make no mistake, what Francis is doing to all his children is spiritual rape, plain and simple .

I stick by what I said. Instead of revealing the sins of the Pope that many simply do not need to know and would not have known otherwise; I would rather teach my kids why it is wrong to have interfaith meetings, why it is wrong to honor false religions and why it is wrong to commit otherwise scandalous actions. In this way I protect them without scandalizing them and without committing detraction against a Pontiff and if they come across these things done by a Pontiff then they will be prepared for them.

The Sede's operate in the same way you are doing there (defaming Pope Francis by saying that he is spiritual raping children, like a Father who beats his children and rapes his children? Really?) and their goal is to scandalize those weak in faith to get them to join their Sede operations. It works, after having such a bad image painted (in their minds) over the Papacy (like spiritual rape, devilry, etc) why should they ever accept it? Hence comes the false idea; if the Church is subject to the Pontiff and the Pontiff is that bad (akin to a rapist) then it cannot possibly be the true Church.

Your not going to convince people (teach them effectively) that the Pope is infallible in official decrees (ex-cathedra) and that he is the Vicar of Christ with universal jurisdiction over the entire Christian Church when you are constantly upbraiding him in front of everyone, telling people that he is guilty of spiritual rape, etc.

I think Catholics need to start weighing their priorities and asking themselves just what they are trying to accomplish when they speak or criticize the Pope in public. A few things that first come to mind. Who is your audience? Will they be scandalized? Are they weak in faith? How are you speaking? Are you giving the Pope the benefit of the doubt when it comes to things on the news? What is your purpose? And does it actually work or are you just throwing more fuel on the fire?
Do you work for CMTV? If not, you should definitely apply - you'd fit right in. When the Pope speaks, people listen, people who do not know their Faith. Some of what the Pope says or does is scandalous and this is what "Joe Catholic" hears and reads about. Sadly, this is how they are informed about the Faith. Burying our heads in the sand is not the answer here.
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#42
This whole premise of "scandalizing"  people who supposedly "don't know" about what the Pope does and says on a daily basis is just a fallacy. Maybe if we where living in 1950. Today I find out about something my friend working in mainland China did a second ago as soon as I check my Instagram . Everything the Pope says is on the news. At all times. Check out Foxnews.com . They have a story about how some dude handed the Pope a pizza. Everything gets reported now.  Even the lamest stupidest things. And the so called "Francis effect" has already taken hold. A Pope can change the way people practice their Faith without changing actual doctrine. All people have to hear is of the cuff remarks and a few sermons and some interviews and mission accomplished.

The only one commiting "detraction" here is in fact yourself by accusing people of detraction and scandal for simply reporting FACTS.  You don't like the FACTS so you have to accuse people of bashing. Your whole argument sounds just like when the militant homosexuals accuse us of "homophobia" for not falling in line with their program.

And right now the priority is not to get people to understant that the Pope is infallible since infallible pronouncements rarely happen which you seem so obsessed about. Right now the priority is a Pope who is trying to challange 2000 years of Church doctrine established by Our Lord Himself. But I guess in your mind it's more important that people properly understand the Papacy than the fact the Pope is using THE KEYS to open the Church to further destruction and suffering.

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#43
(03-23-2015, 03:17 PM)spikepaga Wrote: This whole premise of "scandalizing"  people who supposedly "don't know" about what the Pope does and says on a daily basis is just a fallacy. Maybe if we where living in 1950. Today I find out about something my friend working in mainland China did a second ago as soon as I check my Instagram . Everything the Pope says is on the news. At all times. Check out Foxnews.com . They have a story about how some dude handed the Pope a pizza. Everything gets reported now.  Even the lamest stupidest things. And the so called "Francis effect" has already taken hold. A Pope can change the way people practice their Faith without changing actual doctrine. All people have to hear is of the cuff remarks and a few sermons and some interviews and mission accomplished.

The only one commiting "detraction" here is in fact yourself by accusing people of detraction and scandal for simply reporting FACTS.  You don't like the FACTS so you have to accuse people of bashing. Your whole argument sounds just like when the militant homosexuals accuse us of "homophobia" for not falling in line with their program.

And right now the priority is not to get people to understant that the Pope is infallible since infallible pronouncements rarely happen which you seem so obsessed about. Right now the priority is a Pope who is trying to challange 2000 years of Church doctrine established by Our Lord Himself. But I guess in your mind it's more important that people properly understand the Papacy than the fact the Pope is using THE KEYS to open the Church to further destruction and suffering.

Its not a fallacy.

Many Catholics simply do not have the time or the zeal to follow everything that is going on inside the Vatican and/or to read every news report on Pope Francis on a daily basis. My sister for example, she is Catholic and pregnant with her 6th kid; she has got way too much to do and to think about than to read everything reported on Francis on a daily basis. And, I would rather teach her the truth on any given subject than to reveal the Popes faults and/or errs and then to attack them in front of her and her kids. The same goes for my wife and my kids. And many Catholics have jobs (where both parents work), they have kids and are involved in their communities; I don't see how a Catholic could have the time to read every single twitter post and news report on Pope Francis.

I am not obsessed with Papal infallibility any more than I am obsessed with the doctrine concerning the Eucharist or how the Pope has universal jurisdiction over the Church. I want Catholics to believe all the doctrines of the Faith and I do not want to place any obstacle in the way of that, one must believe the doctrines of the Faith to be saved, which ones? All of them, even if they have yet to learn them; they must be ready and willing to submit to them should they learn them in the future. Believing the doctrines of the Church implies accepting all of them as truth before you can even understand or known them all, it really is a disposition of heart and mind; to give the intellect over to God and to believe him, trusting him as the source of truth.

Now your premise is absurd; saying that the Pope is using THE KEYS (which God gave him) to open the Church to further destruction and suffering (whatever is opened or closed, is opened or closed on earth and heaven) is illogical and impious. The Holy Spirit will not let him change the faith using "the Keys"; if it could have happened then it would have already happened before and I would have no reason to be Catholic, let alone believe any previous Popes when they taught from the Chair of Peter or used "the Keys". And I would even say that if the Church is being opened to suffering then it is being done by the positive will of God, perhaps the faithful have become lukewarm and God is chastising them.

This sermon explains it well,
http://www.romans10seventeen.org/audio-f...eption.mp3

Who's Church is this? This is God's Church; it is indefectible and infallible.

God will not let the Pope change the Faith even if the Pope be a sinner and personally in err, or even if he wants to change it.

Have Faith, God is with his Church and he will preserve her.

P.S.
On a side note, I think God really will surprise people, particularly all the modernist at this upcoming synod. While they are waiting for big changes; I will be waiting for the Church to re-affirm the truth and to confound all the people who hate her or want her to change.
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