Francis' Latest: Denies Dogma on Hell
#21
(03-23-2015, 12:43 PM)Azygos Wrote: I tell my wife all the time that she needs to learn her religion and I remind her that it is necessary for her salvation. I talk about Catholicism 90% of the time and I have several Catechisms, Bibles, Books on Doctrine, Book by Doctors and Saints of the Church, as well as other prominent modern authors. Yet, she is still reluctant to learn her doctrine and would rather be on facebook or doing some other activity rather than learning the faith.

There's a clue there in that bold print. Check out this page:  http://www.fisheaters.com/nontradfamily.html

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#22
(03-23-2015, 08:54 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(03-23-2015, 12:43 PM)Azygos Wrote: I tell my wife all the time that she needs to learn her religion and I remind her that it is necessary for her salvation. I talk about Catholicism 90% of the time and I have several Catechisms, Bibles, Books on Doctrine, Book by Doctors and Saints of the Church, as well as other prominent modern authors. Yet, she is still reluctant to learn her doctrine and would rather be on facebook or doing some other activity rather than learning the faith.

There's a clue there in that bold print. Check out this page:  http://www.fisheaters.com/nontradfamily.html

I think you are implying that because I talk a lot about Catholicism that is why she is turned off to learning about Catholicism? I know for a fact that if I never talked about Catholicism then she would be in the same boat (at-least, at the moment) except things would be way worse. She does learn when I talk about Catholicism however it is a drudgery and a very slow process. A little learning at a slow pace is better than not learning at all.

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#23
So you expect me to believe a known liar that has been known to lie in order to advance his agenda over the same man that preaches about the Devil and his lies all the time.

Okay, look I think we all agree that Pope Francis is not what we would prefer the Pope to be right now, but God has apparently decided otherwise so unless there is something real behind an accusation of heresy (other than an atheist liar who is known to lie about this very issue) I think I will pass.
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#24
(03-24-2015, 12:38 PM)Azygos Wrote:
(03-23-2015, 08:54 PM)Vox Clamantis Wrote:
(03-23-2015, 12:43 PM)Azygos Wrote: I tell my wife all the time that she needs to learn her religion and I remind her that it is necessary for her salvation. I talk about Catholicism 90% of the time and I have several Catechisms, Bibles, Books on Doctrine, Book by Doctors and Saints of the Church, as well as other prominent modern authors. Yet, she is still reluctant to learn her doctrine and would rather be on facebook or doing some other activity rather than learning the faith.

There's a clue there in that bold print. Check out this page:  http://www.fisheaters.com/nontradfamily.html

I think you are implying that because I talk a lot about Catholicism that is why she is turned off to learning about Catholicism? I know for a fact that if I never talked about Catholicism then she would be in the same boat (at-least, at the moment) except things would be way worse. She does learn when I talk about Catholicism however it is a drudgery and a very slow process. A little learning at a slow pace is better than not learning at all.

Azygos, you and I are in the same boat concerning our wives. Prayers for you.
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#25
(03-24-2015, 03:55 PM)Unum Sint Wrote: So you expect me to believe a known liar that has been known to lie in order to advance his agenda over the same man that preaches about the Devil and his lies all the time.

Okay, look I think we all agree that Pope Francis is not what we would prefer the Pope to be right now, but God has apparently decided otherwise so unless there is something real behind an accusation of heresy (other than an atheist liar who is known to lie about this very issue) I think I will pass.

God did not decide, He Willed. It was the bishops at the synod who decided. Deus Vult allows for terrible bishops to be elected pope. This was the case of Israel in the Old Testament and still is valid in the New Testament with the New Israel (aka Roman Catholic Church).
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#26
Rorate published a translation of the article by Francesca Romana today:

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/03....html#more
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#27
from http://www.ncregister.com/blog/pat-archb...rxist-yawn

Quote:Pope, Heresy, Marxist, Yawn

Perhaps the psy-ops are working.

What just 18 months ago would have set the Catholic internet on fire, this time around barely smoldered. In an editorial reflection (not a new interview) the Pope's infamous marxist atheist dialogue partner, Eugenio Scalfari, put the following words in the mouth of the Pope:
What happens to these extinct souls? Will they be punished? And how?
Francis’ answer is unambiguous and clear: There is no penalty but the annihilation of that soul. All others live on to share the the happiness in the presence of the Father. The extinguished souls have no part in this feast, with the death of the body is its end and this is the motivation of the missionary Church: to save the lost. This is also the reason why Francis is through and through, a Jesuit.



So we have a man who has been granted repeated interviews with Pope Francis stating that the Pope, in an unambiguous and clear way, endorsed the heresy of Annihilationism.


And the Catholic world shrugged.

Where are the reporters beating down Fr. Lombardi's door asking for a clarification? Where are the trads screaming bloody murder? Where are the ostrich Catholics telling us how difficult to impossible it is to translate other languages into English? Where are the neo-ultramontanists telling us how Annihilationism has a long and noble Christian tradition? Where are the people on Facebook breathlessly telling us that to deny Annihilationism is to deny Peter and the Holy Spirit?

Sorry, everybody is too tired. Not this time.

None of these things happened this time around. Why? Because the reporters know that a waiting for a clarification from the Pope to Fr. Lombardi is like waiting for Godot. The trads are not screaming bloody murder because they know that Scalfari is an old marxist nutjob who doesn't take notes or recordings and there is no way ever to substantiate the Pope's favorite interviewer's claim. Why bother taking the heat when you can't prove a darn thing? Everybody else, if they have even heard of the Scalfari editorial, just scratch their head and say "Huh?"

And so it goes. Some may view this as progress, people are learning not to go nuts over every little utterance. Still, the Pope's repeated interview buddy puts heresy into the mouth of the Pope, again, and nobody cares. I can't see any way in which that is a good thing, unless the psy-ops are working.

On a completely unrelated note, I am sure the flurry of stories lately that Kasper and his proposals have fallen out of favor at the highest levels of the Vatican should make us all feel better. Whatever unfortunate heretical sausage making we got exposed to last October, that is all behind us now. Not to worry. You all look very tired, you should take a nap. We'll wake you up in November.
 
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#28
From the commentary section on The Remnant website:
Quote:Isn't this the same Francis who warns about a literal Devil and that organized crime types are in danger of Hell?

Where is the Devil if he is not in a literal hell?

He said this addressing organized crime types in a public sermon not too long ago.

"There is still time not to end up in hell, which awaits you if you continue on this road,” Pope Francis said.

>[The Italian word is annullamento, literally, "turned into nothing", meaning here the same as the more usual Italian word for annihilation, annientamento]

I looked it up online. It means destruction, cancellation or annulment.

The Hebrew word for bottomless pit(which is synonymous with Hell) in revelations is Abaddon which literally translates as "destruction".

Even if that is a literal quote (& Scalfari never puts it in quotes) there is no reason to believe the Pope equates the destruction of a soul with "cessation of being" which is the true heresy.

A soul that looses sanctifying grace and has no chance to see the Beatific Vision is clearly "destroyed".
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#29
(03-25-2015, 07:51 AM)PolishTrad Wrote: From the commentary section on The Remnant website:
Quote:Isn't this the same Francis who warns about a literal Devil and that organized crime types are in danger of Hell?

Where is the Devil if he is not in a literal hell?

He said this addressing organized crime types in a public sermon not too long ago.

"There is still time not to end up in hell, which awaits you if you continue on this road,” Pope Francis said.

>[The Italian word is annullamento, literally, "turned into nothing", meaning here the same as the more usual Italian word for annihilation, annientamento]

I looked it up online. It means destruction, cancellation or annulment.

The Hebrew word for bottomless pit(which is synonymous with Hell) in revelations is Abaddon which literally translates as "destruction".

Even if that is a literal quote (& Scalfari never puts it in quotes) there is no reason to believe the Pope equates the destruction of a soul with "cessation of being" which is the true heresy.

A soul that looses sanctifying grace and has no chance to see the Beatific Vision is clearly "destroyed".

An analogy comes to mind: if you set off a bomb in a house, that house will be well called "destroyed", even though the material that made it up is still lying around.
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#30
This would be a good comparison if soul were not indivisible. But it is.
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