Francis' Latest: Denies Dogma on Hell
#31
(03-25-2015, 11:39 AM)PolishTrad Wrote: This would be a good comparison if soul were not indivisible. But it is.

I didn't intend the analogy to be taken that far.
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#32
If Francis really said that he is speaking heresy more in line with the likes of Jehovah's Witnesses than basic apostolic Christianity but that doesn't mean we must run out and become sedevacantists. Honestly I try to forget about Francis for the most part and live as if the Pope in Rome is way off in a distant country whose interviews and off the cuff remarks have no bearing on my life. Why should we pay attention to every papal utterance? Is not this not simply crass Papolatry? This almost cultlike obsession with the pope is repugnant to me.  Papolatry is one of the worst aspects of modern Catholicism.
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#33
A great FSSP priest once told his flock that we can't worry about what Popes, patriarchs, cardinals and bishops are saying or doing, much less be getting worked up over it and inciting schism.  We're all going to be called to answer for our words and actions before the throne of the Almighty.  All we can do is look to our own souls and those we're responsible for: shepherds for their flocks, parents for children.  I do wish the Holy Father would be more careful, if not more... stern & stately, but I don't begrudge him the burden of his words being picked over by those who would disparage as much as those who would idolize him or use him for their own agendas.  Even if he's not steering, as I might wish from my limited perspective, I would rather be on the barque of St. Peter than off.

 
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#34
Before the time of mass media, none of this stuff would have ever been cared about. Unless something big came from the Pope, people probably hardly even heard from him.
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#35
formerbuddhist: "Honestly I try to forget about Francis for the most part... Why should we pay attention to every papal utterance? Is not this not simply crass Papolatry? This almost cultlike obsession with the pope is repugnant to me."

Uxi: "A great FSSP priest once told his flock that we can't worry about what Popes... are saying or doing,."

GangGreen: "Before the time of mass media, none of this stuff would have ever been cared about. Unless something big came from the Pope, people probably hardly even heard from him."

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Comments like these could just as easily been lifted from opinion pieces or letters to the editor in the lib/modernist National Catholic Reporter.

Utter indifference, if not total contempt, for the teaching of the Successor of St. Peter and Vicar of Jesus Christ on Earth. Both "extremes" meet on this one!

Yes, you "recognize" Francis, but he's just an empty symbol for you,  little more than a white-cassocked mannequin on a balcony.

Is THAT the papacy that Our Lord established?
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#36
(03-26-2015, 08:19 AM)FatherCekada Wrote: formerbuddhist: "Honestly I try to forget about Francis for the most part... Why should we pay attention to every papal utterance? Is not this not simply crass Papolatry? This almost cultlike obsession with the pope is repugnant to me."

Uxi: "A great FSSP priest once told his flock that we can't worry about what Popes... are saying or doing,."

GangGreen: "Before the time of mass media, none of this stuff would have ever been cared about. Unless something big came from the Pope, people probably hardly even heard from him."

------

Comments like these could just as easily been lifted from opinion pieces or letters to the editor in the lib/modernist National Catholic Reporter.

Utter indifference, if not total contempt, for the teaching of the Successor of St. Peter and Vicar of Jesus Christ on Earth. Both "extremes" meet on this one!

Yes, you "recognize" Francis, but he's just an empty symbol for you,  little more than a white-cassocked mannequin on a balcony.

Is THAT the papacy that Our Lord established?

Even more reason to be scandalized. The Pope knows that his every utterance is in fact reported constantly, and you'd figure that he would have had time to reflect and rein back the crazy interviews and comments, but he just keeps at it. Even if half of this new interview is made up its still scandalous that the Pope refuses to keep quiet, because we can ignore him all we want, but the rest of the world still looks at him and takes his comments very seriously
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#37
(03-26-2015, 08:19 AM)FatherCekada Wrote: Comments like these could just as easily been lifted from opinion pieces or letters to the editor in the lib/modernist National Catholic Reporter.

Utter indifference, if not total contempt, for the teaching of the Successor of St. Peter and Vicar of Jesus Christ on Earth. Both "extremes" meet on this one!

Yes, you "recognize" Francis, but he's just an empty symbol for you,  little more than a white-cassocked mannequin on a balcony.

Only when you remove all context could you interpret my post as indifference, much less anything in the NCR.  To be charitable to such an interpretation, I didn't elucidate on the reasoning: we can't  influence the Holy Father (or the other prelates of the hierarchy you excluded in the quote), nor should we dare to wish to! though we can and should pray for them.  Do you pray for the Holy Father, Fr. Cekada? 

Quote:Is THAT the papacy that Our Lord established?

No, dear reverend Father, He established a real authority present on the Earth that will endure forever, which you deny is still extant, do you not?  Quite unlike those you are claiming are 'indifferent'...
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#38
(03-26-2015, 08:19 AM)FatherCekada Wrote: Comments like these could just as easily been lifted from opinion pieces or letters to the editor in the lib/modernist National Catholic Reporter.

Utter indifference, if not total contempt, for the teaching of the Successor of St. Peter and Vicar of Jesus Christ on Earth. Both "extremes" meet on this one!

Yes, you "recognize" Francis, but he's just an empty symbol for you,  little more than a white-cassocked mannequin on a balcony.

Is THAT the papacy that Our Lord established?
And what can I, as a lay person , do? What would me bashing the Pope do? What would anyone telling the Pope to do except those who are close to him accomplish? Even a priest has no power to say anything to the Pope. No, only if the bishops do something, would a pope maybe change his tune. Even here is something that we have no power over. All we can do is hope that truly holy priests are the ones who get promoted to bishop when the current ones retire/die. Here is the only part that laity can possibly play where they can help priests on the road to that holiness in a similar way that they can help us.

Sure, I have concern over the things that the Pope says and does, but what would me telling everybody who has no power to stop these things accomplish? The Church is not a democracy last time I checked. We can't vote out the Pope or the bishops. Does this pope scandalize the people with his comments? Sure, I'm not denying that. Is this a strong and great pope? I don't think so. However, we also have the promise of Christ regarding His Church. When a pope is not up to snuff the only thing we can do is pray and wait it out. We can only accomplish things at the grass roots level and hope that it eventually builds up. Change will only come from the top when those at the top change. Luckily it is those at the bottom who are the ones who eventually make their way to the top.

From Scripture we see St. Paul correct St. Peter. That is another bishop correcting the Pope. Would we ever find any instances of a lay person correcting the Pope in all of Catholic history?
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#39
I would love to sit down and have a real conversation with Pope Francis. I personally refuse to assume that news outlets are being totally honest about his character and that they always report things correctly with no bias or spin. My skepticism of the news is not unfounded, anyone and everyone should be skeptical of the news.

And to be honest I don't listen to Pope Francis through the media, this is not indifference but it is just common sense. If the media cannot be substantiated as truthful about 90% of time then why follow it? However, I do follow Pope Francis; I do this by being a member of the Catholic Church, by staying in a state of Grace and by obeying the teachings of the Church, etc. I do not need to get on my computer everyday and look up what the Pope says in personal conversation, sermons, interviews or learn what he had for lunch in order to be in union with the Pope and to accept his jurisdiction over the visible Church. In fact, I must assume that the Pope will not mind if I read St. Francis De Sales introduction to the devout life over news reports, etc.

It is silly to assume that one must be media crazy over the Pope or else he is suffering from indifference.
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#40
(03-26-2015, 11:29 AM)Uxi Wrote:
(03-26-2015, 08:19 AM)FatherCekada Wrote: Comments like these could just as easily been lifted from opinion pieces or letters to the editor in the lib/modernist National Catholic Reporter.

Utter indifference, if not total contempt, for the teaching of the Successor of St. Peter and Vicar of Jesus Christ on Earth. Both "extremes" meet on this one!

Yes, you "recognize" Francis, but he's just an empty symbol for you,  little more than a white-cassocked mannequin on a balcony.

Only when you remove all context could you interpret my post as indifference, much less anything in the NCR.  To be charitable to such an interpretation, I didn't elucidate on the reasoning: we can't  influence the Holy Father (or the other prelates of the hierarchy you excluded in the quote), nor should we dare to wish to! though we can and should pray for them.  Do you pray for the Holy Father, Fr. Cekada? 

Quote:Is THAT the papacy that Our Lord established?

No, dear reverend Father, He established a real authority present on the Earth that will endure forever, which you deny is still extant, do you not?  Quite unlike those you are claiming are 'indifferent'...

Go back to your initial statement: "A great FSSP priest once told his flock that we can't worry about what Popes... are saying."

A Catholic is supposed to "worry about" what a real pope is saying -- heed and receive his teaching. That's why Christ established the papal office and gave popes the authority -- HIS authority -- to teach.

Take away the obligation to adhere to a pope's teaching, an all you have left is the mannequin on the balcony.
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