Good and Evil; Commoner's Views.

[J Michael]

What are you inferring above? Is the Molinist concept restricted to "Latin theologians"? Do non-Latin theologians have a better idea?

By the way, I left the Trinity concepts open to criticism from Eastern Schismatic theology.

I didn't mean it negatively.  I just mean an Easterner probably would not call themselves a Molinist anymore than a Roman Catholic would call themselves an Arminian.

Would most Eastern Christians have even heard of Molinism??  I had to look it up.  Have I wasted my time? :Hmm:

Catholic Armenians (or Armenian Catholics  :)) have their own liturgical rite.  Somehow I don't think Molinists do...

[Renatus Frater]

Unless I misrecall, the procession of the Holy Spirit hasn't come up, so no argument here, boss.

I just didn't mention Procession or "Spiration"  or any of that other pretentious, pseudo-Scholastic bilge that has only served to degrade good philosophy into an esoteric preserve of air-heads in their ivory towers.

OOps! My political incorrectness is showing again. I'll need another wash as soon as it rains again.

You mean pretentious garbage as in The Creed??  >:(

Uh oh.... :Hmm:

Ah, yes, The Creed.  Well, the Roman Catholics have theirs, the Orthodox have theirs, and we Eastern Catholics, embracing the very best of both worlds, have both! :grin: :LOL:  Maybe we can spend another millenium or two arguing about who's "right" and who's "wrong".  I wonder if God will ask of us at the Last Judgment, "Well, kiddo, which Creed did YOU recite?  Think carefully, now, your eternity hinges on getting the answer 'right'". ???

But even in the (schismatic) Eastern version of the Creed they speak of procession. They just don't say “filioque”, that is, “and [from] the son”, but they certainly believe in procession from the Father.

Oldavid should take it up with the Cappadocians if he doesn't like Trinitarian theology as concerns the Holy Spirit.

[J Michael]

Unless I misrecall, the procession of the Holy Spirit hasn't come up, so no argument here, boss.

I just didn't mention Procession or "Spiration"  or any of that other pretentious, pseudo-Scholastic bilge that has only served to degrade good philosophy into an esoteric preserve of air-heads in their ivory towers.

OOps! My political incorrectness is showing again. I'll need another wash as soon as it rains again.

You mean pretentious garbage as in The Creed??  >:(

Uh oh.... :Hmm:

Ah, yes, The Creed.  Well, the Roman Catholics have theirs, the Orthodox have theirs, and we Eastern Catholics, embracing the very best of both worlds, have both! :grin: :LOL:  Maybe we can spend another millenium or two arguing about who's "right" and who's "wrong".  I wonder if God will ask of us at the Last Judgment, "Well, kiddo, which Creed did YOU recite?  Think carefully, now, your eternity hinges on getting the answer 'right'". ???

But even in the (schismatic) Eastern version of the Creed they speak of procession. They just don't say “filioque”, that is, “and [from] the son”, but they certainly believe in procession from the Father.

Oldavid should take it up with the Cappadocians if he doesn't like Trinitarian theology as concerns the Holy Spirit.

I wonder if God will ask of us at the Last Judgment, "Well, kiddo, which Creed did YOU recite?  Think carefully, now, your eternity hinges on getting the answer 'right'". ???

But perhaps that's meat for a different thread...?

[Oldavid]

Ah, yes, The Creed.  Well, the Roman Catholics have theirs, the Orthodox have theirs, and we Eastern Catholics, embracing the very best of both worlds, have both! :grin: :LOL: 

As in: "And/or/maybe/either/both" perhaps? It would take all day to include all the "possibilities" in your Credo. No wonder Eastern Liturgies are typically ponderously long.

Maybe we can spend another millenium or two arguing about who's "right" and who's "wrong".  I wonder if God will ask of us at the Last Judgment, "Well, kiddo, which Creed did YOU recite?  Think carefully, now, your eternity hinges on getting the answer 'right'". ???

Ah, well, the question has already been definitely settled. Come Judgement Day you'll only need to be sure not to wilfully disagree with the settlement.

[Oldavid]

What are you inferring above? Is the Molinist concept restricted to "Latin theologians"? Do non-Latin theologians have a better idea?

By the way, I left the Trinity concepts open to criticism from Eastern Schismatic theology.

I didn't mean it negatively.  I just mean an Easterner probably would not call themselves a Molinist anymore than a Roman Catholic would call themselves an Arminian.

Would most Eastern Christians have even heard of Molinism??  I had to look it up.  Have I wasted my time? :Hmm:

Catholic Armenians (or Armenian Catholics  :)) have their own liturgical rite.  Somehow I don't think Molinists do...

Molinism isn't even an "ism", really. It's a Theological opinion that seeks to reconcile free will and predestination... which I think it does pretty well compared to the almost Jansenist Augustinian version or the contorted Thomistic version. The matter hasn't been definitively settled, but the Molinist version has been generally  accepted by the "great unwashed" (common, ordinary, garden variety) Catholics for hundreds of years; if not always.

Anyhow, forget all the name-dropping; are we "saved" (or damned) because we were chosen to be "saved" (or damned) and will be "saved" (or damned) in spite of ourselves (as in: nothing you can do about it; it is "written") or is salvation or damnation entirely dependent on genuinely free choices we make?

[Melkite]

What are you inferring above? Is the Molinist concept restricted to "Latin theologians"? Do non-Latin theologians have a better idea?

By the way, I left the Trinity concepts open to criticism from Eastern Schismatic theology.

I didn't mean it negatively.  I just mean an Easterner probably would not call themselves a Molinist anymore than a Roman Catholic would call themselves an Arminian.

Are we talking doctrinal concepts or politics?

Either or.

[Melkite]

Would most Eastern Christians have even heard of Molinism??  I had to look it up.  Have I wasted my time? :Hmm:

Catholic Armenians (or Armenian Catholics  :)) have their own liturgical rite.  Somehow I don't think Molinists do...

Not Armenians.  Arminians.  Arminians are to Calvinists what Molinists are to Thomists.

[J Michael]

Would most Eastern Christians have even heard of Molinism??  I had to look it up.  Have I wasted my time? :Hmm:

Catholic Armenians (or Armenian Catholics  :)) have their own liturgical rite.  Somehow I don't think Molinists do...

Not Armenians.  Arminians.  Arminians are to Calvinists what Molinists are to Thomists.

Well...butter my butt and call me a biscuit! :grin: :grin: :LOL:  My colossal ignorance decreases incrementally each day.  Well, some days, that is. :)  Thanks for clarifying!

[Melkite]

Well...butter my butt and call me a biscuit! :grin: :grin: :LOL:  My colossal ignorance decreases incrementally each day.  Well, some days, that is. :)  Thanks for clarifying!

Bahahaha, clarified butter....was that intentional?

[J Michael]

Well...butter my butt and call me a biscuit! :grin: :grin: :LOL:  My colossal ignorance decreases incrementally each day.  Well, some days, that is. :)  Thanks for clarifying!

Bahahaha, clarified butter....was that intentional?

I could lie and say "yes", but I won't. :)  Anyway, unintentional ghee is sooooo much better!