Good and Evil; Commoner's Views.
#51
(04-18-2015, 08:37 AM)Oldavid Wrote: That's only a starter.

This Good stuff.............. what is it and where can I get some?

Good is "stuff"?

Well, if you like ice cream, there's always this:
[Image: GoodHumor.jpg]
:)
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#52
Many years ago I bought an enormous tome pretentiously titled "A History of Western Philosophy".  In it the author imperiously and scoffingly dismissed Thomism in a couple of paragraphs because Thomism says that a Man is entirely to blame for his wilful errors but cannot claim credit for the good he possesses. At least the prat forced me to think about the matter for weeks, if not years.

Ultimately, the issue boils down to; all good in a Man comes from without, often as a free and unsolicited gift... things like life, intellect, will, nurture, etc. Even things like learning, culture, etc. are acquired not spontaneously produced from within.

As such then, a Man has only the option to accept some good offered to him or to refuse or degrade such gifts.

A bit like an ice cream could be eaten and enjoyed (if you like that stuff) or discarded.
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#53
(04-19-2015, 05:18 PM)Oldavid Wrote: Many years ago I bought an enormous tome pretentiously titled "A History of Western Philosophy".  In it the author imperiously and scoffingly dismissed Thomism in a couple of paragraphs because Thomism says that a Man is entirely to blame for his wilful errors but cannot claim credit for the good he possesses. At least the prat forced me to think about the matter for weeks, if not years.

Ultimately, the issue boils down to; all good in a Man comes from without, often as a free and unsolicited gift... things like life, intellect, will, nurture, etc. Even things like learning, culture, etc. are acquired not spontaneously produced from within.

As such then, a Man has only the option to accept some good offered to him or to refuse or degrade such gifts.

A bit like an ice cream could be eaten and enjoyed (if you like that stuff) or discarded.

Notice that he called it a history of western philosophy, not the history of western philosophy, which would have been truly pretentious.
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#54
(04-19-2015, 05:18 PM)Oldavid Wrote: Many years ago I bought an enormous tome pretentiously titled "A History of Western Philosophy".  In it the author imperiously and scoffingly dismissed Thomism in a couple of paragraphs because Thomism says that a Man is entirely to blame for his wilful errors but cannot claim credit for the good he possesses. At least the prat forced me to think about the matter for weeks, if not years.

Ultimately, the issue boils down to; all good in a Man comes from without, often as a free and unsolicited gift... things like life, intellect, will, nurture, etc. Even things like learning, culture, etc. are acquired not spontaneously produced from within.

As such then, a Man has only the option to accept some good offered to him or to refuse or degrade such gifts.

A bit like an ice cream could be eaten and enjoyed (if you like that stuff) or discarded.

Yes, of course, all is grace. Even our being is gratuitously given to us. That should be obvious to any "philosopher", otherwise he is not in reality.
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#55
(04-19-2015, 06:49 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote:
(04-19-2015, 05:18 PM)Oldavid Wrote: Many years ago I bought an enormous tome pretentiously titled "A History of Western Philosophy".  In it the author imperiously and scoffingly dismissed Thomism in a couple of paragraphs because Thomism says that a Man is entirely to blame for his wilful errors but cannot claim credit for the good he possesses. At least the prat forced me to think about the matter for weeks, if not years.

Ultimately, the issue boils down to; all good in a Man comes from without, often as a free and unsolicited gift... things like life, intellect, will, nurture, etc. Even things like learning, culture, etc. are acquired not spontaneously produced from within.

As such then, a Man has only the option to accept some good offered to him or to refuse or degrade such gifts.

A bit like an ice cream could be eaten and enjoyed (if you like that stuff) or discarded.

Yes, of course, all is grace. Even our being is gratuitously given to us. That should be obvious to any "philosopher", otherwise he is not in reality.

When you put it in such a blunt way as Oldavid did in the first paragraph, it tends to cause offence. It's much better to find a more acceptable way of saying the same thing, thereby circumventing the ego's defences.
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#56
(04-19-2015, 06:51 PM)Dirigible Wrote:
(04-19-2015, 06:49 PM)Renatus Frater Wrote:
(04-19-2015, 05:18 PM)Oldavid Wrote: Many years ago I bought an enormous tome pretentiously titled "A History of Western Philosophy".  In it the author imperiously and scoffingly dismissed Thomism in a couple of paragraphs because Thomism says that a Man is entirely to blame for his wilful errors but cannot claim credit for the good he possesses. At least the prat forced me to think about the matter for weeks, if not years.

Ultimately, the issue boils down to; all good in a Man comes from without, often as a free and unsolicited gift... things like life, intellect, will, nurture, etc. Even things like learning, culture, etc. are acquired not spontaneously produced from within.

As such then, a Man has only the option to accept some good offered to him or to refuse or degrade such gifts.

A bit like an ice cream could be eaten and enjoyed (if you like that stuff) or discarded.

Yes, of course, all is grace. Even our being is gratuitously given to us. That should be obvious to any "philosopher", otherwise he is not in reality.

When you put it in such a blunt way as Oldavid did in the first paragraph, it tends to cause offence. It's much better to find a more acceptable way of saying the same thing, thereby circumventing the ego's defences.

What would be offensive about Mr. Old's first paragraph?  We're in an age where bluntness is grossly under-appreciated and wariness of others' supposedly fragile egos is more than grossly over-rated.  On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with being polite when appropriate  :)
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#57
(04-19-2015, 06:51 PM)Dirigible Wrote: When you put it in such a blunt way as Oldavid did in the first paragraph, it tends to cause offence. It's much better to find a more acceptable way of saying the same thing, thereby circumventing the ego's defences.
Blame my mother and father... politics and political correctness didn't get much recognition at the kitchen table with 10 children and only one poor father and one heroic mother.
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#58
I don't get why Oldavid or I were offensive.  ???
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#59
I meant "offence" in a very particular way, and I should have chosen a different word. Allow me to rephrase: if you just bluntly say "everything bad you do is your fault, and you can't be proud of anything good you do", it will, if the person is not already predisposed to agree, strike them as absurd and monstrous and, in order to avoid this reaction, one should phrase oneself more carefully and reach the same idea by a more circuitous route.
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#60
(04-19-2015, 08:04 PM)Dirigible Wrote: I meant "offence" in a very particular way, and I should have chosen a different word. Allow me to rephrase: if you just bluntly say "everything bad you do is your fault, and you can't be proud of anything good you do", it will, if the person is not already predisposed to agree, strike them as absurd and monstrous and, in order to avoid this reaction, one should phrase oneself more carefully and reach the same idea by a more circuitous route.

But why sugar coat this particular extremely important truth?  Now, I agree that you don't have to bludgeon someone with it in a nasty or disagreeable manner but getting all gushy and p.c. so as not to offend strikes me as even more absurd and monstrous than speaking the truth...in love.  In a way, though, this particular truth, given the ethos of these times in which nothing is anybody's fault but is always someone else's fault, in which people have been taught extremely effectively to avoid and deflect responsibility for their own actions, in which virtually anything said can be a cause of grievous offense because we are all so incredibly fragile and sensitive, would strike many people as absurd and even monstrous, so contrary is it to the unreality of our  times.
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