Good and Evil; Commoner's Views.
#19
(04-07-2015, 10:57 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(04-06-2015, 07:41 PM)J Michael Wrote: You may call it "joy" or "bob" or "cathy" or whatever you want  :) .  The fact of the matter is that the actual word being used by Kreeft and in his references to the ancient philosophers, e.g. Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, was "happiness".  Joy was discussed separately (hopefully her ears aren't burning  :LOL: .  Sorry, I find it hard to resist a good or bad pun.)

I'm not really concerned with how Kreeft or the ancient philosophers used the term happiness.  I'm not even troubled by the idea that it may have meant something different in antiquity.  Language changes, that's natural.  But it has a particular meaning in use today.  Catholicism teaches that getting to Heaven means, among other things, living in eternal happiness.  The Church isn't saying "Oh, btw, when we say happiness, we really mean something other than what you are thinking."  So millions of people are walking around with a misguided understanding and hope for heaven, and the Church isn't doing anything to actively correct that?  The Church is allowing false hope?  Hmm, doesn't sound like something a divine institution would do to me.

You'll find any excuse or reason to criticize the Church, to find fault with her and deny her, won't you?  Is it because you are trying to find a way back to her and want us or others to provide you with air-tight, convincing arguments for doing so, or is it because you need to find ways to rationalize leaving her?  Sorry, but I had to ask.

Yes, I think we moderns ARE misguided when it comes to what "happiness" is and means, especially those of us in the West.  We equate happiness with feeling good.  And, if we don't feel good, we're not happy.  And if it feels good, do it.  And if it feels good, and we do it, it must, ergo, be good, even though the "it" may actually be objectively bad or sinful.  If the Church teaches that in heaven we will experience perfect happiness eternally.  What that means precisely for *then*, I'm not entirely sure.  But what it (happiness) means for us here and now in this life is, especially if we call ourselves Christians, has to be about being and doing objective, knowable good, rather than it being just about a subjective and relative feeling which is eminently changeable.  Is that not the or a basis for the trap of moral relativism?

By the way, I don't think it's necessarily the Church's fault we are misguided, or if it is, it is only to the extent that the Church *as (mis-) represented by some of her sons and daughters* has fallen prey to modernism and moral relativism.

I used to think, like you appear to do, that happiness was all about feeling good.  How fleeting and impermanent *that* is!!  When I began to wrap my head around the notion that it was much more than that, much more objective than that, and then found philosophers who put words to it for me, as in Kreeft, et al., things began to make much more sense.  You know, those little things like suffering and evil.
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Messages In This Thread
Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-04-2015, 03:47 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-04-2015, 11:01 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-04-2015, 09:54 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-05-2015, 08:57 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-05-2015, 10:07 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-06-2015, 08:48 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-06-2015, 09:09 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-06-2015, 12:13 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-06-2015, 05:09 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-06-2015, 06:42 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-07-2015, 10:57 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by J Michael - 04-07-2015, 12:54 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-07-2015, 02:31 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-07-2015, 04:11 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-07-2015, 05:06 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-07-2015, 05:56 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-07-2015, 06:57 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-07-2015, 07:57 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-07-2015, 11:41 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-08-2015, 07:39 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-08-2015, 05:22 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-08-2015, 10:23 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-08-2015, 10:31 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-09-2015, 09:14 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-09-2015, 11:37 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-09-2015, 12:27 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-09-2015, 01:45 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-09-2015, 05:00 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-18-2015, 08:37 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-19-2015, 05:18 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-19-2015, 07:17 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-21-2015, 01:55 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-21-2015, 05:23 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 04-21-2015, 06:26 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 04-27-2015, 12:53 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-10-2015, 11:39 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-12-2015, 08:57 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-12-2015, 10:16 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-14-2015, 06:55 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-15-2015, 12:28 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-15-2015, 01:52 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-15-2015, 11:59 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-17-2015, 03:32 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 05-17-2015, 09:17 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 05-17-2015, 09:23 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-17-2015, 05:06 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-20-2015, 03:30 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 05-20-2015, 11:32 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-20-2015, 04:57 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-20-2015, 07:17 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 05-20-2015, 09:41 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-21-2015, 12:36 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-21-2015, 12:41 AM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-21-2015, 05:27 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Oldavid - 05-21-2015, 06:04 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 05-21-2015, 07:10 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 05-21-2015, 07:12 PM
Re: Good and Evil; Commoner's Views. - by Melkite - 05-22-2015, 05:02 PM



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