Traditional catholic arguments against Zionism.
#31
(04-10-2015, 12:53 AM)austenbosten Wrote:
(04-10-2015, 12:03 AM)Ave Castitatis Lilium Wrote: Israel was not the product of some peaceful and innocent settlement project. It was the product of a decade of terrorism, murder, and land theft. Go watch any old newsreel to see farms bulldozed and hotels blown up to establish this evil state.

Then why would the United Nations even create such an evil state, after having fought against such evils only 3 years prior?  ???

Weird, isn't it? Isn't it funny, as well, how war was declared on Germany to preserve Poland's independence, and when the war was won, Poland was decidedly not independent?
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#32
(04-10-2015, 12:58 AM)Dirigible Wrote:
(04-10-2015, 12:53 AM)austenbosten Wrote:
(04-10-2015, 12:03 AM)Ave Castitatis Lilium Wrote: Israel was not the product of some peaceful and innocent settlement project. It was the product of a decade of terrorism, murder, and land theft. Go watch any old newsreel to see farms bulldozed and hotels blown up to establish this evil state.

Then why would the United Nations even create such an evil state, after having fought against such evils only 3 years prior?  ???

Weird, isn't it? Isn't it funny, as well, how war was declared on Germany to preserve Poland's independence, and when the war was won, Poland was decidedly not independent?

Well Poland was "independent", just under the sphere of Soviet influence. However, that was the Allies and Soviet dealings. We are talking about the United Nations which was being led by a Dane at that time.

My question really was not answered. What about the founding of the modern state of Israel (as opposed to say the current Gaza or West Bank government...or any other nation for that matter) is so down-right evil?

???
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#33
Because the United Nations is evil? It's not a hard leap to make.
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#34
(04-10-2015, 11:53 AM)austenbosten Wrote:
(04-10-2015, 12:58 AM)Dirigible Wrote:
(04-10-2015, 12:53 AM)austenbosten Wrote:
(04-10-2015, 12:03 AM)Ave Castitatis Lilium Wrote: Israel was not the product of some peaceful and innocent settlement project. It was the product of a decade of terrorism, murder, and land theft. Go watch any old newsreel to see farms bulldozed and hotels blown up to establish this evil state.

Then why would the United Nations even create such an evil state, after having fought against such evils only 3 years prior?  ???

Weird, isn't it? Isn't it funny, as well, how war was declared on Germany to preserve Poland's independence, and when the war was won, Poland was decidedly not independent?

Well Poland was "independent", just under the sphere of Soviet influence. However, that was the Allies and Soviet dealings. We are talking about the United Nations which was being led by a Dane at that time.

My question really was not answered. What about the founding of the modern state of Israel (as opposed to say the current Gaza or West Bank government...or any other nation for that matter) is so down-right evil?

???

Oh, I thought you were being sarcastic and joined in.
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#35
(04-10-2015, 03:36 PM)Ave Castitatis Lilium Wrote: Because the United Nations is evil? It's not a hard leap to make.

Still does not answer my question, and does not make any sense. The founding of the modern state of Israel is evil, because the United Nations is evil?
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#36
(04-09-2015, 11:41 PM)Ave Castitatis Lilium Wrote: If there was any time an Arab war against Israel was just, it was in 1948.

That's a pretty big "if" as far as I'm concerned--but I am slightly biased  :).  Besides, the Arabs lost that war, didn't they?  What's the expression, "To the victor belong the spoils"?
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#37
(04-10-2015, 07:54 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(04-09-2015, 11:41 PM)Ave Castitatis Lilium Wrote: If there was any time an Arab war against Israel was just, it was in 1948.

That's a pretty big "if" as far as I'm concerned--but I am slightly biased  :).  Besides, the Arabs lost that war, didn't they?  What's the expression, "To the victor belong the spoils"?

I don't think "might is right" makes for a very good argument on a Christian forum.
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#38
Well, the Arabs hold a huge part of the world's real estate, and the Jews have a little strip of land (that doesn't even have oil, as far as I know). Suddenly every Arab is so interested in that land.
I really don't know why all the hysteria because some Jews moved to Israel and founded a state.

Its like some commentator said once, if there were a Mohammedan pope and a caliphate à la the Ottoman Empire, the Israel-Palestine thing would be reduced to the local attrition it really is, and not this supposedly major injustice.

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#39
(04-11-2015, 07:21 AM)Renatus Frater Wrote: Well, the Arabs hold a huge part of the world's real estate, and the Jews have a little strip of land (that doesn't even have oil, as far as I know). Suddenly every Arab is so interested in that land.
I really don't know why all the hysteria because some Jews moved to Israel and founded a state.

Its like some commentator said once, if there were a Mohammedan pope and a caliphate à la the Ottoman Empire, the Israel-Palestine thing would be reduced to the local attrition it really is, and not this supposedly major injustice.

In all honesty I'm baffled by the hysteria. Truth be told, the Arabs in Palestine were looked down upon by the other Arabian peoples, until Israel once again defeated Egypt, Syria and Lebanon in the Six-Day War....then all of a sudden you saw a major outpouring of support for the Palestinian-Arabs.

Honestly things would be so much better, had the Ottoman Empire not have fallen and the liberal reforms of Tanzimat not been put into place.
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#40
(04-11-2015, 02:38 AM)Dirigible Wrote:
(04-10-2015, 07:54 PM)J Michael Wrote:
(04-09-2015, 11:41 PM)Ave Castitatis Lilium Wrote: If there was any time an Arab war against Israel was just, it was in 1948.

That's a pretty big "if" as far as I'm concerned--but I am slightly biased  :).  Besides, the Arabs lost that war, didn't they?  What's the expression, "To the victor belong the spoils"?

I don't think "might is right" makes for a very good argument on a Christian forum.

It may not be a good argument on any forum, but I don't think I'm making that argument.  In fact, I don't think I'm making any argument, just pointing out what happened in that instance and that one of the consequences, for better or worse, of "winning" a war is that the winner gets a bonus, as it were.  In the case of the Arabs losing in 1948, the bonus was that Israel got to confirm and continue its existence as a political state.  An awful lot of people don't like that fact but it is, nonetheless, a fact .  It's time for those who haven't to start coming to terms with it. 
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