Why do Catholics "worship" Mary?
#1
My wife and I volunteered to do an apologetics presentation to our church group on why Catholics "worship" Mary.  We have some ideas, but would love to hear some more.  And what better place to ask for help than the traditional forum that I frequent?  So yea, we need some suggestions, sources, videos, books, and whatever else you can help us with.  Thank you in advance!
Reply
#2
(04-16-2015, 08:34 AM)AllSeasons Wrote: My wife and I volunteered to do an apologetics presentation to our church group on why Catholics "worship" Mary.  We have some ideas, but would love to hear some more.  And what better place to ask for help than the traditional forum that I frequent?  So yea, we need some suggestions, sources, videos, books, and whatever else you can help us with.  Thank you in advance!

I don't have specific material suggestions at the moment, but I think when dealing with Protestants, a good place to start is to reinforce the idea that the veneration of Mary is Christocentric. Why, after all, did the Council of Ephesus insist on the title Theotokos (God-bearer, Mother of God)? To reinforce the true divinity of Jesus Christ. Without doubt, such a lofty title redounds to Our Lady's own glory as well, but the true purpose of the title is to proclaim the truth about Christ.
Reply
#3
Enjoy:

Reply
#4
Id like to point out one semantic issue to avoid confusion.

Catholic honor Mary, they do not worship Mary. If there are Prots in the audience saying Catholics worship Mary will set them off. Unless you want to spend a bunch of time on dulia, hyperdulia and latria keep it simple.

Here is some great info from FE

http://www.fisheaters.com/mary.html
Reply
#5
(04-16-2015, 08:57 AM)aquinas138 Wrote:
(04-16-2015, 08:34 AM)AllSeasons Wrote: My wife and I volunteered to do an apologetics presentation to our church group on why Catholics "worship" Mary.  We have some ideas, but would love to hear some more.  And what better place to ask for help than the traditional forum that I frequent?  So yea, we need some suggestions, sources, videos, books, and whatever else you can help us with.  Thank you in advance!

I don't have specific material suggestions at the moment, but I think when dealing with Protestants, a good place to start is to reinforce the idea that the veneration of Mary is Christocentric. Why, after all, did the Council of Ephesus insist on the title Theotokos (God-bearer, Mother of God)? To reinforce the true divinity of Jesus Christ. Without doubt, such a lofty title redounds to Our Lady's own glory as well, but the true purpose of the title is to proclaim the truth about Christ.


I'd suggest that the only reason to give any honor to the Theotokos at all is because of her role in the Incarnation. This is something that honest Protestants should be able to see after careful consideration. The Virgin should never be seen apart from her Son, but neither is there no room to honor her at all. Any good solid Mariology points to Christ. The only good she has comes from Him and Him alone.

Another argument you might use is from Tradition---that she has always been honored by the most ancient bodies of apostolic Christians.
Reply
#6
(04-16-2015, 10:50 AM)formerbuddhist Wrote:
(04-16-2015, 08:57 AM)aquinas138 Wrote:
(04-16-2015, 08:34 AM)AllSeasons Wrote: My wife and I volunteered to do an apologetics presentation to our church group on why Catholics "worship" Mary.  We have some ideas, but would love to hear some more.  And what better place to ask for help than the traditional forum that I frequent?  So yea, we need some suggestions, sources, videos, books, and whatever else you can help us with.  Thank you in advance!

I don't have specific material suggestions at the moment, but I think when dealing with Protestants, a good place to start is to reinforce the idea that the veneration of Mary is Christocentric. Why, after all, did the Council of Ephesus insist on the title Theotokos (God-bearer, Mother of God)? To reinforce the true divinity of Jesus Christ. Without doubt, such a lofty title redounds to Our Lady's own glory as well, but the true purpose of the title is to proclaim the truth about Christ.


I'd suggest that the only reason to give any honor to the Theotokos at all is because of her role in the Incarnation. This is something that honest Protestants should be able to see after careful consideration. The Virgin should never be seen apart from her Son, but neither is there no room to honor her at all. Any good solid Mariology points to Christ. The only good she has comes from Him and Him alone.

Another argument you might use is from Tradition---that she has always been honored by the most ancient bodies of apostolic Christians.

How would you explain the honor (veneration) given to saints that didn't literally participate in the incarnation?

Reply
#7
I think a lot of this 'worshiping Mary' stuff comes from an inaccurate assessment of one in prayer.

First off, the way we in the corporeal communicate with the spiritual, ethereal (if you will) plane is by prayer. Prayer, is prayer and it can be directed in many ways, but basically, it is directed to the Divine or the Infernal and even to the extent that those practicing ESP use a form of prayer to attempt communication.

Prayer certainly can be twisted.

We Catholics, almost always begin our prayer with the Sign of the Cross...kinda like picking up the receiver on a phone. It's an outward sign that something is about to occur. In this metaphor, the thing isn't speech into a device, it is prayer into the Heavenly realm. Prayer is how we communicate with the Heavenly realm and those in it.

It would then appear, to the uninformed, that we are assuming the same 'position' as one would in talking to God or Jesus, but since the Saints and Mary are also in the same realm (so to speak), they hear our prayers too, in this way.

I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding on a number of levels about how Catholics pray and how others do. There in may lie the rub.
Reply
#8
Actually I'm not sure why the saints are honored, only that tradition dictates that we honor them. I suppose it's because they are our friends in the same faith who are now in Heaven who can still pray for us and help us.

I admit when it comes to the Virgin my devotional life is pretty sparse. I have a few icons and venerate them and occasionally pray the rosary but I've never had the same dedication to the Virgin the way some Catholics do, and I must admit devotions like the True Devotion to Mary, despite being well argued, are not my cup of tea. It's one thing to argue that it's perfectly justified to ask for the intercession of the Virgin and to honor her as the Theotokos but another thing altogether to say along with St. Louis de Montfort that Marian piety is necessary for salvation or to call her "co-redemptrix" the way some do.

I'm uncomfortable with much Marian piety to be honest.

Oh, and to answer your question Renatus...I can't...I only meant that Mary is honored primarily because she is the Theotokos, not because of any other specific reason. Had it not been for her role in the Incarnation she'd be just a Jewish girl from the 1st century. Certainly she has and does answer prayers (through her Son) and so perhaps she can be honored for being compassionate towards those who call in her, but primarily it's because of her yes to God at the Annuciation.

As to the saints, well, I'm not sure. I find myself close to them because they were and are men like us who "persevered to the end" and now stand before God to help us with their prayers.
Reply
#9
(04-16-2015, 08:57 AM)aquinas138 Wrote: the veneration of Mary is Christocentric. Why, after all, did the Council of Ephesus insist on the title Theotokos (God-bearer, Mother of God)? To reinforce the true divinity of Jesus Christ. Without doubt, such a lofty title redounds to Our Lady's own glory as well, but the true purpose of the title is to proclaim the truth about Christ.

That may have been true then, but many argue that Mary has her own independent merit as well. Think about the dogma of Immaculate Conception, which deals purely with Mary's own "worth" (if you will) without touching on Christ. Think also of the idea of Mary as the Co-Redemptrix of mankind which was close to being pronounced dogma under Pius XII and which many traditionalists cling to today. See also the opinions from Sacred Tradition, such as this:

"The learned and pious Jesuit, Suarez, the erudite and devout Justus Lipsius, Doctor of Louvain, and many others have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the Fathers, that devotion to Our Blessed Lady is necessary for salvation, and that it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem and love for the Holy Virgin; while on the other hand, it is an infallible mark of predestination to be entirely and truly devoted to Her." (St. Montfort)
Reply
#10
If one understands theosis, one understands why the saints are venerated.

They were drenched in God and they were -- and are -- actual conduits of grace.  They are not --NOT -- just "good examples."  This is also why their relics are venerated, and why these relics can be so powerful.

Our Lady is preeminent among the saints because she was gratia plena, that is, absolutely full of grace.  She was also given a tremendous capacity for grace.

Venerating the saints, we glorify God in them and we rejoice in the capacity of men to bear, to carry, God Himself.  And this is why, in the Eastern Church, holy monks are called "God-bearing elders."

[Image: 1127ASign.jpg]
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)