«Natural Law & Sexual Ethics» @ Princeton, by Prof. Ed Feser
(04-19-2015, 08:46 PM)Dirigible Wrote:
(04-19-2015, 07:50 PM)Geremia Wrote: 37:13 needs a correction/clarification: He says oral or manual stimulation is not a perversion of the natural end of sexual faculties, as long as it is directed toward vaginal intercourse. However, oral sex is never a necessary means to the completion of the marital act!

As mentioned here, St. Alphonsus di Liguori also treats oral sex in Theologia Moralis [PDF p. 325], n. 916 ("copulam in vase præpostero" or "copulating in a preposterous orifice") and says that most moralists agree it is always a mortal sin, even if the act finishes in v​a​g​i​n​a​l intercourse (in vase debito ["the due orifice]), because "est vera sodomia, quamvis non consummata" ["it is truly sodomy, even if incomplete].

Now, the husband could stimulate, orally or manually, the wife or the wife herself. St. Alphonsus discussed this (also mentioned here):
Quote:Interestingly, St. Alphonsus even says that, because the female is generally not as warm (aroused) as the male, that the female can arouse herself (touch herself) even after insemination. St. Alphonsus's question is Theologia Moralis l. 6, n. 919 [PDF p. 328-329 of this]: "An autem, si vir se retrahat post seminationem, sed ante seminationem mulieris, possit ipsa statim tactibus se excitare, ut seminet?" ["Whether, if the man pulls out after insemination (ejaculation), but before the insemination of the woman, she can still excite herself with touches, that she inseminate?"]. In this context, "inseminate" means "ejaculate" (for a male) or "be wet" (for a female); it could, perhaps, also be translated as "orgasm." The moralists who thought she couldn't didn't realize the "semen mulieris" ["female seed"] "est necessarium ad generationem" ["is necessary for conception"]. But most moral theologians agree it is permissible. Here's a rough translation of St. Alphonsus's explanation:
Quote:The reason is that the woman's insemination pertains to the completion of the conjugal act, which consists in the insemination of both Spouses; thus, as the woman can touch herself in preparation for copulation, so also can she to perfect the act of copulation: … All [moral theologians] thus concede that women, who are naturally more frigid, can excite themselves with touches before copulation so that they inseminate while having marital intercourse.
Note: This only applies to the female!
So, certainly the husband can touch the wife so that she complete the act, but never can the wife orally or manually stimulate the husband's genitals.

So, manual stimulation of women was permissible when it was believed that the female orgasm was necessary for procreation, but now that we know it's not, it's no longer permissible?
I think you need to watch the video. This is not meant to be offensive, but most Orthodox I have encountered have a very impoverished understanding of Natural Law. We do not subscribe the Locekean version.

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Re: «Natural Law & Sexual Ethics» @ Princeton, by Prof. Ed Feser - by Papist - 04-24-2015, 03:04 PM

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