Has Russia Been Consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary?
#11
Well, if it was then the triumph of the Immaculate Heart and the period of peace were merely hyperboles.

But then again, the greater war and the spreading of error was already accomplished by the time the consecration was supposedly made. Who knows how much God was/is/(?) willing to directly intervene to revert the process put in motion.

I don't know how much we can trust Western media on this supposedly conversion of the Russians, and even how much of it is sincere: yes, Putin and whatnot, but also the soldiers—I've seen a video where the guy interviews Russians in some part of Ukraine who were occupying a Baptist church, they said they fought for the Orthodox Church, etc., but admitted they rarely would go to DL, the woman with them even said she's not that religious. So, I have to wonder if they are not using the Orthodox Church more as an ethnic affirmation (don't get me wrong, I perceive this also happens among some traditional Catholics, so this is not a Catholic vs. Orthodox, West vs. Easter thing).

I tend to think it was not consecrated properly. I've seen interpretations that what was done albeit not the proper thing still merits some graces, and maybe that's what Ir. Lucia was talking about. In the end, who knows. My lay opinion is that I also don't really think the third secret was fully revealed, and we know from stronger revelations (St. John) that things will get worse for the Church (some uses of “the woman”).

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#12
Indeed, my friend.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the consecration have to be in union with all the world's bishops?  Where were they when the non-consecration was taking place?
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#13
(05-29-2015, 12:20 PM)Josey Wales Wrote: Indeed, my friend.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the consecration have to be in union with all the world's bishops? Where were they when the non-consecration was taking place?

Probably best not to ask!  (Or know!!)  :grin:
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#14
I have no dog in this fight, so to speak. The world is what it is. Certainly Russia is a lot better off now than when the consecrations ("enough" or "not enough) took place, and certainly the West is a lot worse now as well. I am devoted to Our Lady, with or without Fatima, which I do believe in, but i stay away from controversies which I cannot hope to have the information to resolve.

I am just curious about something, for those of you in the "no" camp: what do you do with Sr. Lucia's insistence that the Consecration has been done, or at least done "enough"? Do you disbelieve Sr. Lucia, or is this where people believe that there is a real Sr. Lucia and a fake Sr. Lucia and all that jazz?

So, are there reasons to doubt Sr. Lucia herself? Or, in order to be in the "no" camp, must one necessarily believe in a wild (be it true or not) conspiracy theory?
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#15
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Sister Lucia originally said  (in 1984?) that Pope John Paul's consecration did not fulfill our Lady's stipulations.  However, after a few Vatican stooges paid her a visit at her Carmel and told her to get in line with what the Church wanted her to say in this regard, she rolled over and changed her tune.
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#16
(05-29-2015, 03:42 PM)maldon Wrote: I have no dog in this fight, so to speak. The world is what it is. Certainly Russia is a lot better off now than when the consecrations ("enough" or "not enough) took place, and certainly the West is a lot worse now as well. I am devoted to Our Lady, with or without Fatima, which I do believe in, but i stay away from controversies which I cannot hope to have the information to resolve.

I am just curious about something, for those of you in the "no" camp: what do you do with Sr. Lucia's insistence that the Consecration has been done, or at least done "enough"? Do you disbelieve Sr. Lucia, or is this where people believe that there is a real Sr. Lucia and a fake Sr. Lucia and all that jazz?

So, are there reasons to doubt Sr. Lucia herself? Or, in order to be in the "no" camp, must one necessarily believe in a wild (be it true or not) conspiracy theory?


The Fatima Center and their supporters bring forth quite a lot of decent sounding theories as to why the consecration was not done, why there is a Third Secret that has never been revealed etc. it's pretty wild stuff and some of it approaches conspiracy theory craziness but some of it is quite plausible.

Russia was a sacramental Christian nation for almost a thousand years before communism,it's not as if it's something extraordinary that after the collapse of the iron curtain Russia should return to its deeply rooted Orthodox patrimony. I'm not sure it has anything to do with Fatima, although it might. Russia had monasteries, saints,Wonderworking icons and a lively piety for nearly a millennium and the younger generation wants to return to what is rightfully part of the russian soul.

We ought to rejoice that Russians seem to be returning to the Orthodoxy of their past. There's nothing wrong with hoping for them to become Eastern Catholics though. That would be ideal, but I say it'll happen when hell freezes over. In spirit maybe some Orthodox are close to us,I don't doubt it, but I don't forsee there being some sort of corporate reunion in my lifetime if ever.


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#17
Yes. It has been consecrated. Now it seems like the U.S.A.  needs to be consecrated as it is the major exporter of cultural rot to the entire world.
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#18
Quote:“You have seen Hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.

To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”.

I've always had difficulty with this: "do this one simple thing and everything will be well. If not, God will punish you all!"

I also think that the consecration of Russia gets all too often invoked (particularly by trads) as the explanation of everything or the cure-all for all ills in the world.

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#19
(05-29-2015, 06:54 PM)ecclesiastes Wrote:
Quote:“You have seen Hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to My Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that He is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.

To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”.

I've always had difficulty with this: "do this one simple thing and everything will be well. If not, God will punish you all!"

I also think that the consecration of Russia gets all too often invoked (particularly by trads) as the explanation of everything or the cure-all for all ills in the world.

But I think this is precisely the point: its not an easy thing to do. William Marra said this in one of his talks, and he compared to our consecration to Mary or of our family, etc.

Also, if what happened in Fatima was really true and really divine, then it is a major piece for the interpretation of historical events. Of course its not the cure of all ills—that would be mileniarism in some form—but then again, I've hardly seen among traditional Catholics this attitude myself. The only group I know who speaks of a thousand years reign of the IH is a NO group.

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#20
(05-29-2015, 06:54 PM)ecclesiastes Wrote: I've always had difficulty with this: "do this one simple thing and everything will be well. If not, God will punish you all!"

I also think that the consecration of Russia gets all too often invoked (particularly by trads) as the explanation of everything or the cure-all for all ills in the world.
Exactly. The problem is that the call to convert, to pray and to make reparation has not been heeded. Instead, countless hours have been spent on conspiracy theories and curiosity about secrets..
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